> Shouldn't we at least aspire to the same level of professionalism and quality that good engineers have achieved? My point was that we cannot really, because

> Shouldn't we at least aspire to the same level of professionalism and quality that good engineers have achieved? My point was that we cannot really, because we are not engineers. Nothing in what we do is even close to what civil engineers do for example. Neither our tools, nor our workflows, or our constraints, really nothing. I think the day we decided to call ourselves "engineers" we made a mistake, that's it.