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"> I don't can't think of a single CI or automation thing that works with Linux that you can't do in Windows if pushed I can probably come with considerably mor

by sjellis 10y ago

"> I don't can't think of a single CI or automation thing that works with Linux that you can't do in Windows if pushed I can probably come with considerably more things which are opposite. I agree wholeheartedly with that statement. I hope that UNIX sysadmins want to learn, and bother to learn well the Windows environment better: UNIX sysadmins already know how a system is supposed to work, and it is by large the sheer number of inexperienced Windows sysadmins that make Windows look stupid. UNIX sysadmins have a better chance of running Windows well simply because they won't put up with "have you tried reinstalling everything"?" Powershell is the key that unlocks Windows administration, I think. Certainly, as somebody that does both platforms, learning Powershell made a big difference to how I work and think when using Windows. Having said that, Windows Server is still fundamentally bad. The logging is a mess, remote access is awkward compared to SSH on Linux, the failure to properly integrate package management hurts every day, the Registry is still...there, and the list goes on. The disparity of DevOps tooling is another issue. I would agree with the comment that automating Windows takes several times as long as Linux. It's just not happy fun. At this point, Windows is probably not retrievable. The Windows Server folks will keep improving it bit by bit, but I can't see an argument for continuing to flog the horse and use Windows Server outside of full-dress Microsoft corporate environments.

dogma1138 10y ago
Windows server has native ssh. Also wmi always worked and still does. Logging is great you just need to configure it and register your own triggers and monitors really depends on what you want to log. It's very easy to do logging of every action and even completely custom and send it to the event log, you can also register custom events if you want to add your own application logging or use the stubs and just push the information into the text fields. Again this simply comes to 2 things tooling and knowing windows internals well, sadly because there are usually very little negative side effects to rebooting a windows machine and that the market is flooded GUI administrators with mcsa/mcse certs gained through memorizing exam dumps it's hard to find people that know or want to know how to administrate windows machines to their full potential.
- sjellis 10y ago
  Windows Server has the promise of native SSH, but it isn't part of the OS builds yet. I think that it's fair to say that Windows remote access today is PowerShell and RDP (which is awesome, but not for this). To me, that's sort of where Windows is now. It has some really impressive stuff: Windows 2000 was an avalanche of innovations, but most of it was built for the corporate LANs of a decade ago. Put Windows Server on a cloud, and most of this stuff is not relevant or useful, and Windows is not great at some fundamentals. Logging is one of those. If you are interested in this kind of thing, I'd genuinely encourage you to spin up a Fedora or Debian system and look at the thing work. We are currently in transition between logging systems, but the feature sets are impressive and the error messages are useful. Windows logging is even more patchwork, and the (Microsoft) products that bother with the core logging system tend to fill it with chaff. It might get better, one day, but it's not a good experience today, and hasn't ever been. Another is software management. Package-based software management has to be deeply integrated into the OS for it to provide it's full value. Debian have done this for years, and Red Hat have caught up. Microsoft have a muddle of multiple software management systems, and individual admins can't fix it. We just have to work around it and do the best that we can, or decide that the platform is what it is, and move on.

by sjellis 10y ago

dogma1138 10y ago

Windows server has native ssh. Also wmi always worked and still does. Logging is great you just need to configure it and register your own triggers and monitors really depends on what you want to log. It's very easy to do logging of every action and even completely custom and send it to the event log, you can also register custom events if you want to add your own application logging or use the stubs and just push the information into the text fields. Again this simply comes to 2 things tooling and knowing windows internals well, sadly because there are usually very little negative side effects to rebooting a windows machine and that the market is flooded GUI administrators with mcsa/mcse certs gained through memorizing exam dumps it's hard to find people that know or want to know how to administrate windows machines to their full potential.

sjellis 10y ago
Windows Server has the promise of native SSH, but it isn't part of the OS builds yet. I think that it's fair to say that Windows remote access today is PowerShell and RDP (which is awesome, but not for this). To me, that's sort of where Windows is now. It has some really impressive stuff: Windows 2000 was an avalanche of innovations, but most of it was built for the corporate LANs of a decade ago. Put Windows Server on a cloud, and most of this stuff is not relevant or useful, and Windows is not great at some fundamentals. Logging is one of those. If you are interested in this kind of thing, I'd genuinely encourage you to spin up a Fedora or Debian system and look at the thing work. We are currently in transition between logging systems, but the feature sets are impressive and the error messages are useful. Windows logging is even more patchwork, and the (Microsoft) products that bother with the core logging system tend to fill it with chaff. It might get better, one day, but it's not a good experience today, and hasn't ever been. Another is software management. Package-based software management has to be deeply integrated into the OS for it to provide it's full value. Debian have done this for years, and Red Hat have caught up. Microsoft have a muddle of multiple software management systems, and individual admins can't fix it. We just have to work around it and do the best that we can, or decide that the platform is what it is, and move on.