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“If they’re persistently sad, irritable or less motivated, those are markers that may indicate depression, even in kids as young as 3 or 4, and we would recomme

“If they’re persistently sad, irritable or less motivated, those are markers that may indicate depression, even in kids as young as 3 or 4, and we would recommend that parents get them evaluated.” Speaking from personal experience, if a 3 or 4 year old is displaying symptoms of depression, there's shit happening at home and the parents are neck-deep in denial about their role and pigs will fly before they get help for their kid.

meteoricrise 10y ago
Ok, so in your claimed expert opinion, depressed kids are depressed because of the parents actions; and their parents won't ever give a shit. But so what? Why write that? The folks doing this research know more than you do about the causes of their depression; and they know more than you do about the difficulties in addressing any causes. But unlike you, instead of implying that they're foolish for trying to make the world better, they're just trying to make the world better. Most victories are long, hard slogs. I respect people who undertake those slogs, knowing that victory is not assured. I have no respect for those who throw rocks at them.
- fgm842 10y ago
  I don't he or she meant it that way, the OP said "from personal experience". Your response was uncalled for...
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    One of the biggest problems with how our society deals with depression is "from personal experience".
    - fgm842 10y ago
      You're overgeneralizing on how society deals with depression. Just because the OP said it does not mean you and I agree with him/her.
  - GavinMcG 10y ago
    I disagree. You and I know that personal experience isn't good to generalize from. But in my personal experience, the vast majority of the time that people use the phrase, they do so to communicate that they know things to be a certain way, at least strongly enough to base other conclusions on.
  - meteoricrise 10y ago
    His post _only_ makes sense if he's being a rock throwing know-it-all. Your bullshit pedantry changes nothing. It just makes clear that you're _also_ a jerk; and that you have sufficiently poor judgment that you choose to spend your spare time defending unrepentant assholes.
ars 10y ago
> Speaking from personal experience, if a 3 or 4 year old is displaying symptoms of depression, there's shit happening at home That isn't always true. Some people are depressed without an external cause. It's easier if there is an external cause: Fix the cause, fix the depression.
fgm842 10y ago
Depression is caused by more than just external events. Yes, based on personal experience, but there are more factors to be considered and fixing one issue may not solve the problem. "Rather, depression has many possible causes, including faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability, stressful life events, medications, and medical problems."[0](https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-dep...)
- harpiaharpyja 10y ago
  In my experience there is significant coupling between external events and one's ability/willingness to maintain physiological health.
- herbst 10y ago
  I am pretty sure part of my depression is rootet in pushing my seratonin levels in the past. So i also see it as physical issue.
gomijacogeo 10y ago
Fine. A more reasoned response might be to assert that in at least some cases, young children exhibiting signs of depression are reacting to severe problems at home. In those cases, expecting the parents to pursue treatment for the child might be overly optimistic. It might have been nice if the article had mentioned that as a potential complicating factor and how other, less immediate family or friends might notice these signs and find ways to facilitate some kind of evaluation or intervention. How's that?
cairo_x 10y ago
Your take that depression is caused by bad home circumstances is true for some cases, but there are many causes for depression in between, most of them not even close to being understood. Genetics, immune disease, thyroid problems, etc. The list is pretty huge. As for expecting parents to notice; a trained psychiatric professional cannot diagnose depression by regular life observation alone. They rely on self reporting, or suicide attempts. Anything less than that is extremely hard to pick up on.
jetpks 10y ago
> Speaking from personal experience, if a 3 or 4 year old is displaying symptoms of depression, there's shit happening at home and the parents are neck-deep in denial about their role and pigs will fly before they get help for their kid. Depression definitely can be caused by abuse. In fact if you're being abused you are probably also depressed. Depression and other mental illnesses are also often caused by things that can't be externally influenced at all. Casually linking poor parenting with mental illness enforces a stigma that discourages people from seeking treatment for themselves or for their children.
- dkersten 10y ago
  I didn't read GP as necessarily being about abuse, but even stuff like the parents arguing in front of the child.
  - laumars 10y ago
    I didn't read GPs post that way either, however I still agree with jetpks' point regarding depression. Mental illness is a medical condition so cannot be dismissed as a parenting problem. While some instances of depression will be symptoms of a child's home life, others will be medical.
    - harpiaharpyja 10y ago
      Sorry if I'm reading into this too much but are you implying that medical conditions cannot have environmental causes?
    - erelde 10y ago
      I don't understand how the parenting problem being the root cause of the mental illness dismisses the mental illness. Imagine if the child is sick (eg in pneumonia) it wouldn't dismiss the illness if I explained how the child got sick because their parents left them outside freezing. It's not dismissing, it's analyzing the root cause, to try and help the child. If something causes illness (mental and/or physical), we should take care of both the illness and the cause. In the case of depression, finding a true unique cause is still open for debate/research, but it shoudn't prevent us from helping someone who's depressed.
Nekorosu 10y ago
There is also genetic factor. Infant depression can happen in a perfectly fine family. Of course if parents don't know how to deal with this problem it will get worse. Education helps.
Nekorosu 10y ago
Nevermind you have elaborated your point in the new comments.

meteoricrise 10y ago

Ok, so in your claimed expert opinion, depressed kids are depressed because of the parents actions; and their parents won't ever give a shit. But so what? Why write that? The folks doing this research know more than you do about the causes of their depression; and they know more than you do about the difficulties in addressing any causes. But unlike you, instead of implying that they're foolish for trying to make the world better, they're just trying to make the world better. Most victories are long, hard slogs. I respect people who undertake those slogs, knowing that victory is not assured. I have no respect for those who throw rocks at them.

fgm842 10y ago
I don't he or she meant it that way, the OP said "from personal experience". Your response was uncalled for...
- greglindahl 10y ago
  One of the biggest problems with how our society deals with depression is "from personal experience".
  - fgm842 10y ago
    You're overgeneralizing on how society deals with depression. Just because the OP said it does not mean you and I agree with him/her.
- GavinMcG 10y ago
  I disagree. You and I know that personal experience isn't good to generalize from. But in my personal experience, the vast majority of the time that people use the phrase, they do so to communicate that they know things to be a certain way, at least strongly enough to base other conclusions on.
- meteoricrise 10y ago
  His post _only_ makes sense if he's being a rock throwing know-it-all. Your bullshit pedantry changes nothing. It just makes clear that you're _also_ a jerk; and that you have sufficiently poor judgment that you choose to spend your spare time defending unrepentant assholes.

ars 10y ago

> Speaking from personal experience, if a 3 or 4 year old is displaying symptoms of depression, there's shit happening at home That isn't always true. Some people are depressed without an external cause. It's easier if there is an external cause: Fix the cause, fix the depression.

fgm842 10y ago

Depression is caused by more than just external events. Yes, based on personal experience, but there are more factors to be considered and fixing one issue may not solve the problem. "Rather, depression has many possible causes, including faulty mood regulation by the brain, genetic vulnerability, stressful life events, medications, and medical problems."[0](https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-depression https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/what-causes-dep...)

harpiaharpyja 10y ago
In my experience there is significant coupling between external events and one's ability/willingness to maintain physiological health.
herbst 10y ago
I am pretty sure part of my depression is rootet in pushing my seratonin levels in the past. So i also see it as physical issue.

gomijacogeo 10y ago

Fine. A more reasoned response might be to assert that in at least some cases, young children exhibiting signs of depression are reacting to severe problems at home. In those cases, expecting the parents to pursue treatment for the child might be overly optimistic. It might have been nice if the article had mentioned that as a potential complicating factor and how other, less immediate family or friends might notice these signs and find ways to facilitate some kind of evaluation or intervention. How's that?

cairo_x 10y ago

Your take that depression is caused by bad home circumstances is true for some cases, but there are many causes for depression in between, most of them not even close to being understood. Genetics, immune disease, thyroid problems, etc. The list is pretty huge. As for expecting parents to notice; a trained psychiatric professional cannot diagnose depression by regular life observation alone. They rely on self reporting, or suicide attempts. Anything less than that is extremely hard to pick up on.

jetpks 10y ago

> Speaking from personal experience, if a 3 or 4 year old is displaying symptoms of depression, there's shit happening at home and the parents are neck-deep in denial about their role and pigs will fly before they get help for their kid. Depression definitely can be caused by abuse. In fact if you're being abused you are probably also depressed. Depression and other mental illnesses are also often caused by things that can't be externally influenced at all. Casually linking poor parenting with mental illness enforces a stigma that discourages people from seeking treatment for themselves or for their children.

dkersten 10y ago
I didn't read GP as necessarily being about abuse, but even stuff like the parents arguing in front of the child.
- laumars 10y ago
  I didn't read GPs post that way either, however I still agree with jetpks' point regarding depression. Mental illness is a medical condition so cannot be dismissed as a parenting problem. While some instances of depression will be symptoms of a child's home life, others will be medical.
  - harpiaharpyja 10y ago
    Sorry if I'm reading into this too much but are you implying that medical conditions cannot have environmental causes?
  - erelde 10y ago
    I don't understand how the parenting problem being the root cause of the mental illness dismisses the mental illness. Imagine if the child is sick (eg in pneumonia) it wouldn't dismiss the illness if I explained how the child got sick because their parents left them outside freezing. It's not dismissing, it's analyzing the root cause, to try and help the child. If something causes illness (mental and/or physical), we should take care of both the illness and the cause. In the case of depression, finding a true unique cause is still open for debate/research, but it shoudn't prevent us from helping someone who's depressed.

Nekorosu 10y ago

There is also genetic factor. Infant depression can happen in a perfectly fine family. Of course if parents don't know how to deal with this problem it will get worse. Education helps.

Nekorosu 10y ago

Nevermind you have elaborated your point in the new comments.