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More recent versions of Windows Server have definitely improved, but this is still pretty accurate. When given a set of tasks to do for Windows and Linux, the l

More recent versions of Windows Server have definitely improved, but this is still pretty accurate. When given a set of tasks to do for Windows and Linux, the latter is always easier. If it takes x amount of time to automate something on Linux, it's 5x on Windows. Every time. Some of this is due to MS themselves, some of it is due to the software vendors, but it's a very real thing.

dogma1138 10y ago
Can you give an example? In virtually every case I've seen it's people don't knowing powershell, winapi or not having the right tools for the job.
- inferiorhuman 10y ago
  I wasn't the Windows guy so my memory is a bit hazy, but I remember trying to get Chef properly daemonized on Windows was a nightmare. Likewise trying to get collectd installed via Chef was great if you had a fully supported version of Windows. IIRC the collectd MSI only worked on some versions of windows (and 32-bit support was a whole other matter). In an ideal world you wouldn't have to deal with 32-bit versions of Windows, or EOL'd 64-bit versions. The real world with lots of legacy stuff doesn't work that way. Meanwhile EOL'd versions of Linux chugged away just fine. Iteration on the Windows instances was also quite a bit slower than with the Linux ones. Applying all the requisite compliance stuff resulted in a number of additional reboot cycles. I could get a Linux instance bootstrapped in half the time, without having to bake a custom image.
  - dogma1138 10y ago
    Chef is the wrong tool for the job use sccm even if you still want to use chef as a front end have the sccm agents installed and use it. This is a tooling issue, dont expect to use a tool that was hacked together for all intents a purposes rather than a native solution and get good results.
    - inferiorhuman 10y ago
      So, basically, Windows doesn't play nice with others and Windows doesn't do automation. That's why things take longer and why it's more expensive. I'm reading through this: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/21z62d/sccm_2012_with_centos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/21z62d/sccm_2012_... And this: https://www.windows-noob.com/forums/topic/9357-how-can-you-manage-linux-based-clients-in-system-center-2012-r2-configuration-manager/ https://www.windows-noob.com/forums/topic/9357-how-can-you-m... And I'm seeing three things: 1.) SCCM is not nearly as easy to automate as the alternatives. 2.) SCCM is expensive. 3.) SCCM has mediocre support for Linux. And there ya go. Meanwhile things like Ansible, Chef, and Puppet can handle your Linux, BSD, and OSX servers with aplomb. Where Ansible, Chef, and Puppet use mature, cross-platform scripting languages SCCM uses Powershell. Windows is the odd man out here, and skills from nearly every other OS don't really transfer well to dealing with Windows. That's why Windows is seen as more tedious. And, sure, our Windows guys were dropping to Powershell constantly from their Chef cookbooks. But then you get to deal with maintaining PS 2 and PS 4 scripts. The versions of Ruby and Python you'll find with Ansible/Chef/Puppet are significantly better with backwards compatibility in this regard. But, let's say that we had bought into SCCM. That doesn't really fix the problems with the other parts of the stack, nor does it fix the inconsistencies across Windows versions.
      - dogma1138 10y ago
        >So, basically, Windows doesn't play nice with others and Windows doesn't do automation. That's why things take longer and why it's more expensive. I'm reading through this: And you got this from what exactly? Windows does automation just fine, you are throwing this word around without even trying to explain what is it you want to automate. SCCM has ok to decent support for Linux; again depending on your use cases and distro. I don't understand why are you even bringing random Reddit and forum posts for a 5 year old version of SCCM. SCCM isn't expensive it's usually "free" when you buy enough licenses. Also you missed a very critical point; Chef, Puppet and Ansible can invoke the SCCM agent. Their built-in agents for Windows suck, so you either write your own automation (e.g. Powershell) and invoke it via Chef/Puppet/w/e or you use a decent agent that was actually built for purpose. You are constantly complaining about things that at the end stem from a single source; incorrect tooling.

dogma1138 10y ago

Can you give an example? In virtually every case I've seen it's people don't knowing powershell, winapi or not having the right tools for the job.

inferiorhuman 10y ago
I wasn't the Windows guy so my memory is a bit hazy, but I remember trying to get Chef properly daemonized on Windows was a nightmare. Likewise trying to get collectd installed via Chef was great if you had a fully supported version of Windows. IIRC the collectd MSI only worked on some versions of windows (and 32-bit support was a whole other matter). In an ideal world you wouldn't have to deal with 32-bit versions of Windows, or EOL'd 64-bit versions. The real world with lots of legacy stuff doesn't work that way. Meanwhile EOL'd versions of Linux chugged away just fine. Iteration on the Windows instances was also quite a bit slower than with the Linux ones. Applying all the requisite compliance stuff resulted in a number of additional reboot cycles. I could get a Linux instance bootstrapped in half the time, without having to bake a custom image.
- dogma1138 10y ago
  Chef is the wrong tool for the job use sccm even if you still want to use chef as a front end have the sccm agents installed and use it. This is a tooling issue, dont expect to use a tool that was hacked together for all intents a purposes rather than a native solution and get good results.
  - inferiorhuman 10y ago
    So, basically, Windows doesn't play nice with others and Windows doesn't do automation. That's why things take longer and why it's more expensive. I'm reading through this: https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/21z62d/sccm_2012_with_centos/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/21z62d/sccm_2012_... And this: https://www.windows-noob.com/forums/topic/9357-how-can-you-manage-linux-based-clients-in-system-center-2012-r2-configuration-manager/ https://www.windows-noob.com/forums/topic/9357-how-can-you-m... And I'm seeing three things: 1.) SCCM is not nearly as easy to automate as the alternatives. 2.) SCCM is expensive. 3.) SCCM has mediocre support for Linux. And there ya go. Meanwhile things like Ansible, Chef, and Puppet can handle your Linux, BSD, and OSX servers with aplomb. Where Ansible, Chef, and Puppet use mature, cross-platform scripting languages SCCM uses Powershell. Windows is the odd man out here, and skills from nearly every other OS don't really transfer well to dealing with Windows. That's why Windows is seen as more tedious. And, sure, our Windows guys were dropping to Powershell constantly from their Chef cookbooks. But then you get to deal with maintaining PS 2 and PS 4 scripts. The versions of Ruby and Python you'll find with Ansible/Chef/Puppet are significantly better with backwards compatibility in this regard. But, let's say that we had bought into SCCM. That doesn't really fix the problems with the other parts of the stack, nor does it fix the inconsistencies across Windows versions.
    - dogma1138 10y ago
      >So, basically, Windows doesn't play nice with others and Windows doesn't do automation. That's why things take longer and why it's more expensive. I'm reading through this: And you got this from what exactly? Windows does automation just fine, you are throwing this word around without even trying to explain what is it you want to automate. SCCM has ok to decent support for Linux; again depending on your use cases and distro. I don't understand why are you even bringing random Reddit and forum posts for a 5 year old version of SCCM. SCCM isn't expensive it's usually "free" when you buy enough licenses. Also you missed a very critical point; Chef, Puppet and Ansible can invoke the SCCM agent. Their built-in agents for Windows suck, so you either write your own automation (e.g. Powershell) and invoke it via Chef/Puppet/w/e or you use a decent agent that was actually built for purpose. You are constantly complaining about things that at the end stem from a single source; incorrect tooling.