5 ms·

A few things came out of this incident: 1) Per my first flight instructor, this is the reason students now learn how to forward slip. Up until then it was jus

by ihunter 10y ago

A few things came out of this incident: 1) Per my first flight instructor, this is the reason students now learn how to forward slip. Up until then it was just viewed as a glider move. Thankfully the captain was an experienced glider pilot. It's required to demonstrate this maneuver for your private license (not sure about sport license). 2) This ultimately led to overhaul and standardizations for fuel / weight calculations. 3) Because the engines powered the electrical systems via the alternator, the plane lost a number of electrical systems until the ram air turbine kicked in (amazing little invention and kinda saved the day). Afterwards, many subsequent aviation systems were designed to be operated independently from requiring the alternator to be running. Good documentary/recreation on the incident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bct1mWUp8to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bct1mWUp8to. Miraculous that everyone survived, the captain deserves an accolade for quick thinking.

crikli 10y ago
Pretty sure #1 isn't accurate. I wasn't required to forward slip (or side slip, for that matter) on my FAA checkride nor have I been required to do so during any biennial flight review. Edit: I'm dead wrong. :)
- phumbe 10y ago
  Looks like forward slip to landing has been in the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards [1] since at least Nov 2011 [1][PDF] https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-14b.pdf https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/...
  - crikli 10y ago
    Huh. I'm wrong then obviously. Wonder if it's never come up as I tend to forward slip on crosswind landings. Don't recall a DPE ever even mentioning slips.
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  - dbenjamin 10y ago
    Here's it as a required maneuver in 1995 :) https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC61-118A.pdf https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/...
- dbenjamin 10y ago
  #1 is not accurate but for different reasons. A forward slip is absolutely required for a PPL checkride and has been for decades (if you'd like a source, see page 45 of the definitive FAA ACS: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/private_airplane_acs.pdf https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/priva...). However, transport category aircraft (among other issues) have swept wings, which are far less stable in a slip - so slips are neither taught nor recommended for jets.
walrus01 10y ago
> 2) This ultimately led to overhaul and standardizations for fuel / weight calculations. You have no idea how hard it is to get Americans to use 100% metric everything, even in the year 2016 in a highly technical field. It's incredibly frustrating. I'm amazed at the number of people under age 30 who have clearly not been taught even the basics of the metric system in middle school and high school, or intentionally disregarded/forgot it. Working in the US domestic economy is unavoidable to do many things in US customary units when construction/physical engineering of things is involved. For example if building mission critical telecommunications towers to EIA/TIA 222G standards, everything is going to be in US customary units (the tower structure itself, the fasteners, the guy cables, the anchors, the foundation/concrete job, the dimensions of the equipment shelter, the electrical conduit, etc).
- engi_nerd 10y ago
  >You have no idea how hard it is to get Americans to use 100% metric everything, even in the year 2016 in a highly technical field. American in a highly technical field here. I have no issues with using SI units when appropriate. But there is a tremendous lock-in, at least in some areas. Aerospace is a nasty mishmash, resulting in things like aircraft that "think" about altitude in feet, fuel in pounds, gear displacement in inches, but electric field strengths in W/m^2 and geopositioning in meters. All of those choices were made long ago, I'm stuck with them. My only defenses are to keep meticulous track of units and convert where necessary (while paying attention to things like numerical error).
  - walrus01 10y ago
    we are pretty much resigned to the fact that buying all of the pieces to build a datacenter/colo/telecom facility, everything is going to be in US customary units, because that's what the suppliers have. It's a vicious cycle of nobody in the US choosing to stock metric items, so nobody can buy it, and all of the end users just use things that are US units. It can be the smallest things like threaded rod uses to hang overhead fiber trays in a datacenter (all of the fasteners, bolts, nuts, the rod itself, etc) are all in US units. All the way up to the largest things like $150,000 generators where all of their specifications are in US units and fuel consumption figures in gallons, etc. If it involves the construction industry it's 99% of the time going to be US customary units. We only get down to proper metric units when dealing with the fiber itself, but even that is lashed to aerial pole-to-pole strands, where the steel strand is in US units, all of the hardware is US. The battery backup shelves for large AGM lead acid batteries: All US units. The batteries themselves are specified in inches and pounds. Once again it can all be converted, but that's the default unit from the manufacturer. Floor loading calculations? Pounds per square foot.
oceanplexian 10y ago
It's interesting that slips are now more prevalent in training, because they were absolutely crucial when I learned to fly (In a J3 Cub w/ no flaps). It's absolutely a blast and can get you on the ground a LOT faster than 30 degrees of flaps will.

by ihunter 10y ago

crikli 10y ago

Pretty sure #1 isn't accurate. I wasn't required to forward slip (or side slip, for that matter) on my FAA checkride nor have I been required to do so during any biennial flight review. Edit: I'm dead wrong. :)

phumbe 10y ago
Looks like forward slip to landing has been in the Private Pilot Practical Test Standards [1] since at least Nov 2011 [1][PDF] https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/media/faa-s-8081-14b.pdf https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/test_standards/...
- crikli 10y ago
  Huh. I'm wrong then obviously. Wonder if it's never come up as I tend to forward slip on crosswind landings. Don't recall a DPE ever even mentioning slips.
- deleted 10y ago
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- dbenjamin 10y ago
  Here's it as a required maneuver in 1995 :) https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC61-118A.pdf https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/...
dbenjamin 10y ago
#1 is not accurate but for different reasons. A forward slip is absolutely required for a PPL checkride and has been for decades (if you'd like a source, see page 45 of the definitive FAA ACS: https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/private_airplane_acs.pdf https://www.faa.gov/training_testing/testing/acs/media/priva...). However, transport category aircraft (among other issues) have swept wings, which are far less stable in a slip - so slips are neither taught nor recommended for jets.

walrus01 10y ago

> 2) This ultimately led to overhaul and standardizations for fuel / weight calculations. You have no idea how hard it is to get Americans to use 100% metric everything, even in the year 2016 in a highly technical field. It's incredibly frustrating. I'm amazed at the number of people under age 30 who have clearly not been taught even the basics of the metric system in middle school and high school, or intentionally disregarded/forgot it. Working in the US domestic economy is unavoidable to do many things in US customary units when construction/physical engineering of things is involved. For example if building mission critical telecommunications towers to EIA/TIA 222G standards, everything is going to be in US customary units (the tower structure itself, the fasteners, the guy cables, the anchors, the foundation/concrete job, the dimensions of the equipment shelter, the electrical conduit, etc).

engi_nerd 10y ago
>You have no idea how hard it is to get Americans to use 100% metric everything, even in the year 2016 in a highly technical field. American in a highly technical field here. I have no issues with using SI units when appropriate. But there is a tremendous lock-in, at least in some areas. Aerospace is a nasty mishmash, resulting in things like aircraft that "think" about altitude in feet, fuel in pounds, gear displacement in inches, but electric field strengths in W/m^2 and geopositioning in meters. All of those choices were made long ago, I'm stuck with them. My only defenses are to keep meticulous track of units and convert where necessary (while paying attention to things like numerical error).
- walrus01 10y ago
  we are pretty much resigned to the fact that buying all of the pieces to build a datacenter/colo/telecom facility, everything is going to be in US customary units, because that's what the suppliers have. It's a vicious cycle of nobody in the US choosing to stock metric items, so nobody can buy it, and all of the end users just use things that are US units. It can be the smallest things like threaded rod uses to hang overhead fiber trays in a datacenter (all of the fasteners, bolts, nuts, the rod itself, etc) are all in US units. All the way up to the largest things like $150,000 generators where all of their specifications are in US units and fuel consumption figures in gallons, etc. If it involves the construction industry it's 99% of the time going to be US customary units. We only get down to proper metric units when dealing with the fiber itself, but even that is lashed to aerial pole-to-pole strands, where the steel strand is in US units, all of the hardware is US. The battery backup shelves for large AGM lead acid batteries: All US units. The batteries themselves are specified in inches and pounds. Once again it can all be converted, but that's the default unit from the manufacturer. Floor loading calculations? Pounds per square foot.

oceanplexian 10y ago

It's interesting that slips are now more prevalent in training, because they were absolutely crucial when I learned to fly (In a J3 Cub w/ no flaps). It's absolutely a blast and can get you on the ground a LOT faster than 30 degrees of flaps will.