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How else would you turn left? Cross two sets of traffic lights instead and double the wait?

by avar 10y ago

mjevans 10y ago
Stop at the intersection, use the cross-walks to kitty corner.
vanderZwan 10y ago
In practice that's what I do most of the time anyway, because trying to cut off a car, truck or bus is a much worse idea.
- avar 10y ago
  You turn left by getting in front of the row of stopped cars, e.g. [1] in Amsterdam shows such an intersection. This is a common pattern in The Netherlands, and the one I personally prefer to what you describe, since aside from a full roundabout it offers the best trade-off between safety and commute speed while on a bicycle. Granted, my experience of The Netherlands is biased towards central Amsterdam, since it's the only place I've lived, but there's plenty of places there where car & bicycle traffic is mixed. It seems fine to me to mix car & bicycle traffic as long as you force the road speed down, or ensure that the bicycles have priority e.g. on left turns. 1. https://goo.gl/D3jAeF https://goo.gl/D3jAeF
  - vanderZwan 10y ago
    In my experience the fastest option is a short, separate simultaneous green light for pedestrians and bikes, like it's done in Groningen. Takes a while to get used to though. http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/ http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/
    - avar 10y ago
      Very interesting. I didn't know about that, or that as their FAQ[1] indicates that local city law can override general Dutch traffic law. I.e. instead of priority to the right applying to these intersections[2] nobody has priority. Seems confusing, especially as their FAQ stipulates the same intersection will revert back to priority to the right at night when the yellow lights are blinking, but admittedly "priority to the guyw ho wins the game of chicken" is the way it works in the rest of the Netherlands anyway. 1. http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/green-light-for-all-cyclists-how-does-it-work/ http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/green-light-for-all-cyclists... 2. Per RVV 1990[3] article 15: "Op kruispunten verlenen bestuurders voorrang aan voor hen van rechts komende bestuurders". 3. http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0004825/2014-03-20 http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0004825/2014-03-20 [4] 4. Yes my footnotes now have footnotes.

How else would you turn left? Cross two sets of traffic lights instead and double the wait?

by avar 10y ago

How else would you turn left? Cross two sets of traffic lights instead and double the wait?

mjevans 10y ago

Stop at the intersection, use the cross-walks to kitty corner.

vanderZwan 10y ago

In practice that's what I do most of the time anyway, because trying to cut off a car, truck or bus is a much worse idea.

avar 10y ago
You turn left by getting in front of the row of stopped cars, e.g. [1] in Amsterdam shows such an intersection. This is a common pattern in The Netherlands, and the one I personally prefer to what you describe, since aside from a full roundabout it offers the best trade-off between safety and commute speed while on a bicycle. Granted, my experience of The Netherlands is biased towards central Amsterdam, since it's the only place I've lived, but there's plenty of places there where car & bicycle traffic is mixed. It seems fine to me to mix car & bicycle traffic as long as you force the road speed down, or ensure that the bicycles have priority e.g. on left turns. 1. https://goo.gl/D3jAeF https://goo.gl/D3jAeF
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  In my experience the fastest option is a short, separate simultaneous green light for pedestrians and bikes, like it's done in Groningen. Takes a while to get used to though. http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/ http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/
  - avar 10y ago
    Very interesting. I didn't know about that, or that as their FAQ[1] indicates that local city law can override general Dutch traffic law. I.e. instead of priority to the right applying to these intersections[2] nobody has priority. Seems confusing, especially as their FAQ stipulates the same intersection will revert back to priority to the right at night when the yellow lights are blinking, but admittedly "priority to the guyw ho wins the game of chicken" is the way it works in the rest of the Netherlands anyway. 1. http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/green-light-for-all-cyclists-how-does-it-work/ http://groningenfietsstad.nl/en/green-light-for-all-cyclists... 2. Per RVV 1990[3] article 15: "Op kruispunten verlenen bestuurders voorrang aan voor hen van rechts komende bestuurders". 3. http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0004825/2014-03-20 http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0004825/2014-03-20 [4] 4. Yes my footnotes now have footnotes.