4 ms·

This would be illegal in some US states. What are the EU laws regarding covert video and audio surveillance?

briandear 10y ago
It's also illegal to steal phones. The proximate cause of the surveillance was itself a criminal act, thus it would be rather hard to prosecute. If I have my phone set to record and someone steals my phone and thus they are recorded, the thief himself is the one that 'caused' himself to be surveilled.
- chopin 10y ago
  At least in Germany, you can't retaliate an illegal act with another illegal act. I'd expect that this was the rule in any civilized state.
  - jasonlotito 10y ago
    Considering it was still the film makers phone, and he was recording through his phone (and the person holding the phone knew it wasn't his phone, and that the phone had a camera that could record when the user wanted), what would the illegal part be? Just curious as to what specific law covers this.
    - chopin 10y ago
      Not all recordings are legal even if it is my phone. I am not saying that this is case here. But it may not be as clear-cut as it may seem.
    - sangnoir 10y ago
      Owning a phone doesn't trump all the thief's rights - if the thief were underage, all the usual laws would still apply.
- biafra 10y ago
  The recording might not be the biggest problem here. I'd say publishing it could get the filmmaker in trouble. But probably only if the thief sues.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    At least around here, you don't need to sue, just to send a complaint to the appropriate State agency.
belorn 10y ago
It depends. In some countries, it is illegal for the police to do entrapment as part of their job. In some places its legal, but the fact that the accused got entrapped means that intentions are harder to prove, which then impacted the verdict. Surveillance laws in turn generally don't cover this situation. If we ask our self if the thief has an reasonable expectation of privacy when stealing a phone, I would say no. If we ask if the thief has an reasonable expectation of privacy from a stolen phone, again I would say no. This leaves specific video video and audio surveillance laws, and I would say its quite unclear, through I suspect that commercial aspects could likely have some influence over it.
- AlexCoventry 10y ago
  "Reasonable expectation of privacy" is a constitutional consideration. Some states in the US make covert recording illegal even if the participants are in public. E.g. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/massachusetts-recording-law http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/massachusetts-recording-law
Fnoord 10y ago
I asked Dutch IT lawyer Arnoud Engelfriet about the legal status of the movie. He wrote about it today on his blog. His viewpoint is that as it was made here, this movie is legal: http://blog.iusmentis.com/2016/12/21/legaliteit-find-my-phone-documentaire/ http://blog.iusmentis.com/2016/12/21/legaliteit-find-my-phon... I'm low on time right now and if I were to comment on it I am afraid I would omit important details. But the gist of it is that the student carefully made sure that privacy was kept intact, and that he carefully avoids a witch hunt.

It's also illegal to steal phones. The proximate cause of the surveillance was itself a criminal act, thus it would be rather hard to prosecute. If I have my phone set to record and someone steals my phone and thus they are recorded, the thief himself is the one that 'caused' himself to be surveilled.

chopin 10y ago
At least in Germany, you can't retaliate an illegal act with another illegal act. I'd expect that this was the rule in any civilized state.
- jasonlotito 10y ago
  Considering it was still the film makers phone, and he was recording through his phone (and the person holding the phone knew it wasn't his phone, and that the phone had a camera that could record when the user wanted), what would the illegal part be? Just curious as to what specific law covers this.
  - chopin 10y ago
    Not all recordings are legal even if it is my phone. I am not saying that this is case here. But it may not be as clear-cut as it may seem.
  - sangnoir 10y ago
    Owning a phone doesn't trump all the thief's rights - if the thief were underage, all the usual laws would still apply.
biafra 10y ago
The recording might not be the biggest problem here. I'd say publishing it could get the filmmaker in trouble. But probably only if the thief sues.
- icebraining 10y ago
  At least around here, you don't need to sue, just to send a complaint to the appropriate State agency.

belorn 10y ago

It depends. In some countries, it is illegal for the police to do entrapment as part of their job. In some places its legal, but the fact that the accused got entrapped means that intentions are harder to prove, which then impacted the verdict. Surveillance laws in turn generally don't cover this situation. If we ask our self if the thief has an reasonable expectation of privacy when stealing a phone, I would say no. If we ask if the thief has an reasonable expectation of privacy from a stolen phone, again I would say no. This leaves specific video video and audio surveillance laws, and I would say its quite unclear, through I suspect that commercial aspects could likely have some influence over it.

AlexCoventry 10y ago
"Reasonable expectation of privacy" is a constitutional consideration. Some states in the US make covert recording illegal even if the participants are in public. E.g. http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/massachusetts-recording-law http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/massachusetts-recording-law

Fnoord 10y ago

I asked Dutch IT lawyer Arnoud Engelfriet about the legal status of the movie. He wrote about it today on his blog. His viewpoint is that as it was made here, this movie is legal: http://blog.iusmentis.com/2016/12/21/legaliteit-find-my-phone-documentaire/ http://blog.iusmentis.com/2016/12/21/legaliteit-find-my-phon... I'm low on time right now and if I were to comment on it I am afraid I would omit important details. But the gist of it is that the student carefully made sure that privacy was kept intact, and that he carefully avoids a witch hunt.