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Another difficulty with this question (socialize or meditate?) is caused by the Finnish approach to socializing. Is sitting silently together meditating or soci

by kaitai 10y ago

Another difficulty with this question (socialize or meditate?) is caused by the Finnish approach to socializing. Is sitting silently together meditating or socializing? Since Finns can only communicate by text message, this is a valid question. Ok, ok, just kidding -- Finns can talk plenty! But seriously, in Finnish culture sitting silently together is a legitimate form of socializing, unlike some other cultures. Conversation need not be constant. An interesting documentary to watch is Miesten Vuoro (released as Steam of Life in English, but literally translating to 'men's turn'). It explores sauna culture on one level, men's emotional lives on another level. And as ptaipale says below, "In sauna one should be like one is in church" -- my terrible translation of a phrase about a certain traditional attitude toward sauna behavior.

mistermann 10y ago
> in Finnish culture sitting silently together is a legitimate form of socializing, unlike some other cultures. Conversation need not be constant. Are you joking or is this real, like 4 people might meet up and it wouldn't be uncommon to sit there not speaking?
- maus42 10y ago
  I'd characterize it as "very long pauses between replies that are less awkward than one would expect".
- jpatokal 10y ago
  Well, you'd probably talk a bit initially and if you actually had something to say, but the American expectation that there has to be a constant stream of smalltalk (or inane blather, from a Finnish POV) is notably missing. There's a classic joke about this: One day two friends, Jukka and Pekka, meet after a long time apart and they go to a sauna in the woods. They drink vodka in silence for a couple of hours. Then Jukka asks: “So Pekka, how have you been doing?” Pekka says nothing, and they continue drinking for another couple of hours. Eventually Jukka asks: “How's the family?”. At that point, Pekka stands up and shouts: “Did we come here to talk, or did we come here to drink?” (courtesy http://telefinn.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/finnish-jokes-about-drinking.html http://telefinn.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/finnish-jokes-about-...)
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    > the American expectation that there has to be a constant stream of smalltalk (or inane blather, from a Finnish POV) is notably missing. After returning from an international travel experience, coming back to the States this was very noticeable culture difference.
  - Fnoord 10y ago
    I experienced the opposite. When I was young I, European, went to the States and I was being asked 'how are you' in a grocery store. So I ended up answering this question quite seriously until my American friend bumped me to explain we should move on. Obviously, there's only one correct answer to that question: 'good, how are you?' I consider it an extremely rude gesture, and not at all courtesy. If you're asking someone how they are, you should do that genuinely, or not at all. While I fully understand how it is being courteous there are different ways to be courteous which don't include asking questions you don't really want answers to. IOW, I find it very fake. Although I do experience it more here as well, thinking back I remember it occurring at work and in family. I tend to avoid using it.
    - davidy123 10y ago
      Think of it as an opening. If there is really something you could relevantly discuss with that person, you have the opening, but normally it simply means the person is indicating some regard. To turn it around, it would be "extremely rude" of you to take everyone's time in going into details if there were no real reason to do so.
      - Fnoord 10y ago
        Yep, I eventually figured out its an opening, and I did learn to not answer the question. Nonetheless it is still rather odd to me given all the chit-chat Americans tend to have. It just seems inefficient to me, and it has too much potential for awkwardness. Hence I still remain of the opinion "if you don't want to hear an honest answer to a question; don't ask that question." akin to "doctor, it hurts when I do that; then don't do that." I sortof feel the same on 'have a good one' except here this does not hurt anyone, and it does not cause misconception. It is merely ending on a positive note. With that being said, a better way of introducing is "hello, pleased to meet you" since it shows dignity, or just "hello, good morning" which is more neutral. All of these are kind and small gestures but not overly or in the sense of inviting too much chit-chat, or invitations to doors which ought to remain closed. Anyway, no matter how much I dislike it, it won't change. At the same time I don't have to put myself on that level.
- mcv 10y ago
  I thought the common stereotype was that Finns only chat with each other in the sauna. Related: http://satwcomic.com/small-talk http://satwcomic.com/small-talk

by kaitai 10y ago

mistermann 10y ago

> in Finnish culture sitting silently together is a legitimate form of socializing, unlike some other cultures. Conversation need not be constant. Are you joking or is this real, like 4 people might meet up and it wouldn't be uncommon to sit there not speaking?

maus42 10y ago
I'd characterize it as "very long pauses between replies that are less awkward than one would expect".
jpatokal 10y ago
Well, you'd probably talk a bit initially and if you actually had something to say, but the American expectation that there has to be a constant stream of smalltalk (or inane blather, from a Finnish POV) is notably missing. There's a classic joke about this: One day two friends, Jukka and Pekka, meet after a long time apart and they go to a sauna in the woods. They drink vodka in silence for a couple of hours. Then Jukka asks: “So Pekka, how have you been doing?” Pekka says nothing, and they continue drinking for another couple of hours. Eventually Jukka asks: “How's the family?”. At that point, Pekka stands up and shouts: “Did we come here to talk, or did we come here to drink?” (courtesy http://telefinn.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/finnish-jokes-about-drinking.html http://telefinn.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/finnish-jokes-about-...)
- wallace_f 10y ago
  > the American expectation that there has to be a constant stream of smalltalk (or inane blather, from a Finnish POV) is notably missing. After returning from an international travel experience, coming back to the States this was very noticeable culture difference.
- Fnoord 10y ago
  I experienced the opposite. When I was young I, European, went to the States and I was being asked 'how are you' in a grocery store. So I ended up answering this question quite seriously until my American friend bumped me to explain we should move on. Obviously, there's only one correct answer to that question: 'good, how are you?' I consider it an extremely rude gesture, and not at all courtesy. If you're asking someone how they are, you should do that genuinely, or not at all. While I fully understand how it is being courteous there are different ways to be courteous which don't include asking questions you don't really want answers to. IOW, I find it very fake. Although I do experience it more here as well, thinking back I remember it occurring at work and in family. I tend to avoid using it.
  - davidy123 10y ago
    Think of it as an opening. If there is really something you could relevantly discuss with that person, you have the opening, but normally it simply means the person is indicating some regard. To turn it around, it would be "extremely rude" of you to take everyone's time in going into details if there were no real reason to do so.
    - Fnoord 10y ago
      Yep, I eventually figured out its an opening, and I did learn to not answer the question. Nonetheless it is still rather odd to me given all the chit-chat Americans tend to have. It just seems inefficient to me, and it has too much potential for awkwardness. Hence I still remain of the opinion "if you don't want to hear an honest answer to a question; don't ask that question." akin to "doctor, it hurts when I do that; then don't do that." I sortof feel the same on 'have a good one' except here this does not hurt anyone, and it does not cause misconception. It is merely ending on a positive note. With that being said, a better way of introducing is "hello, pleased to meet you" since it shows dignity, or just "hello, good morning" which is more neutral. All of these are kind and small gestures but not overly or in the sense of inviting too much chit-chat, or invitations to doors which ought to remain closed. Anyway, no matter how much I dislike it, it won't change. At the same time I don't have to put myself on that level.
mcv 10y ago
I thought the common stereotype was that Finns only chat with each other in the sauna. Related: http://satwcomic.com/small-talk http://satwcomic.com/small-talk