4 ms·

Well nowadays it seems like EU is not going to survive as it is. Countries in the east seem to be more and more opposed to the idea of EU (some 1/4 - 1/3 of peo

by rplnt 10y ago

Well nowadays it seems like EU is not going to survive as it is. Countries in the east seem to be more and more opposed to the idea of EU (some 1/4 - 1/3 of people IIRC). These are countries that most benefit from the EU, not only financially (funds and markets), but also need the external control to prevent the come-back of mafia, corruption, etc. Russia is playing a huge role in this, modern information warfare. They want the people in countries that suffered for some 20 plus years last decade to again love the motherland. They play on nationalism (Slavs) mostly (thanks to refuge crisis, in which Russia is involved directly), and that most media are owned by the west (and thus lie), and only alternative media will tell you the truth. About Ukraine, about USA, about Syria, about everything. There are different levels for everyone to choose from, be it Jews being responsible for everything, or just plain Brussel Dictatorship. This sounds like a wild conspiracy, but it's scary as fuck to see it. At first it seemed like a joke, or a way to make some money (like regular conspiracy websites would do), but I'm now convinced there are external motives and financing. And people are eating it up. Loving Russia and all. Country which is far worse off than any of the EU members.

azernik 10y ago
I'm not sure where you got the impression that the EU is less popular in the east; according to these [1] surveys, Poland is the only large EU country where EU approval ratings have held up lately, while Hungarians also have quite good feelings on the subject - despite their governments' very public disputes with the EU on the erosion of democracy in those countries. The correlation is weak, but they're also less into decentralisation than others. And Spain and Italy are also relatively pro-Eu; their populist movements have been left-wing and pro-EU. It's rich Northwestern states (and, understandably, Greece) that have big problems on the popular level with the EU. [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-br...
themihai 10y ago
It's actually quite the opposite: the eastern states are the most supportive while the Western states(i.e. UK, Holland and few others) are more pessimistic. It's usually because the richer states subsidize the poorer ones. There is also a doze of populism and lack of EU cohesion.
lh7 10y ago
> Countries in the east seem to be more and more opposed to the idea of EU Where did you get that idea? Unless you're left-pondian, in which case the UK is indeed "in the East". > These are countries that most benefit from the EU, not only financially (funds and markets), And where did you get that idea? > but also need the external control to prevent the come-back of mafia, corruption, etc. Great expression of Jacobinism, but sadly far away from the reality of these countries. Although with a badly battered economy and outdated industry thanks to forty years of mismanagement by incompetent governments, these countries have caught up remarkably. Also, from my own experience as a resident of countries on both sides of the old iron curtain in Central and Western Europe, I assure you that in terms of social organisation, equality, education, and security, the former are far ahead of "Western" counterparts such as France, Spain, and the UK. > Russia is playing a huge role in this No. What plays a huge role in Euroscepticism is the role of national politicians in shifting blame to the EU. There are two approaches to this: 1. Attempt to pass unpopular laws at the EU level, then complain locally, 2. Blame own failures on "Brussels", without providing a reason, and 3. Claim EU achievements (notably EU-funded projects) as one's own. The same approach is seen even at the intra-national level in decentralised and not so decentralised (ahem! France) countries.
fuj 10y ago
Dude.. that... what? That makes no sense and most of it is not true...

by rplnt 10y ago

azernik 10y ago

I'm not sure where you got the impression that the EU is less popular in the east; according to these [1] surveys, Poland is the only large EU country where EU approval ratings have held up lately, while Hungarians also have quite good feelings on the subject - despite their governments' very public disputes with the EU on the erosion of democracy in those countries. The correlation is weak, but they're also less into decentralisation than others. And Spain and Italy are also relatively pro-Eu; their populist movements have been left-wing and pro-EU. It's rich Northwestern states (and, understandably, Greece) that have big problems on the popular level with the EU. [1] http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-brexit/ http://www.pewglobal.org/2016/06/07/euroskepticism-beyond-br...

themihai 10y ago

It's actually quite the opposite: the eastern states are the most supportive while the Western states(i.e. UK, Holland and few others) are more pessimistic. It's usually because the richer states subsidize the poorer ones. There is also a doze of populism and lack of EU cohesion.

lh7 10y ago

> Countries in the east seem to be more and more opposed to the idea of EU Where did you get that idea? Unless you're left-pondian, in which case the UK is indeed "in the East". > These are countries that most benefit from the EU, not only financially (funds and markets), And where did you get that idea? > but also need the external control to prevent the come-back of mafia, corruption, etc. Great expression of Jacobinism, but sadly far away from the reality of these countries. Although with a badly battered economy and outdated industry thanks to forty years of mismanagement by incompetent governments, these countries have caught up remarkably. Also, from my own experience as a resident of countries on both sides of the old iron curtain in Central and Western Europe, I assure you that in terms of social organisation, equality, education, and security, the former are far ahead of "Western" counterparts such as France, Spain, and the UK. > Russia is playing a huge role in this No. What plays a huge role in Euroscepticism is the role of national politicians in shifting blame to the EU. There are two approaches to this: 1. Attempt to pass unpopular laws at the EU level, then complain locally, 2. Blame own failures on "Brussels", without providing a reason, and 3. Claim EU achievements (notably EU-funded projects) as one's own. The same approach is seen even at the intra-national level in decentralised and not so decentralised (ahem! France) countries.

fuj 10y ago

Dude.. that... what? That makes no sense and most of it is not true...