6 ms·

It's just a very hard problem to deal with, and places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. The US lacks a compre

It's just a very hard problem to deal with, and places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. The US lacks a comprehensive national plan to deal with homelessness. Part of the problem is that even when services exist, they're often fragmented and hard to administer. That's what led to ideas like "Housing First", where they've found just providing a home for a year fixes most homelessness problems (particularly when combined with other services). Having a home gives them a base to operate from to organize the rest of the services, finding a job, etc. Part of the problem is that the US doesnt have a good plan for what to do with crazy people. We had a lot of problems with long-term institutions, but when we shut them down, we didn't actually start a new solution. We just left them on the streets. Part of it is just social myth that people deserve their caste. If the homeless don't deserve their place in the increasingly vitrified social system, then perhaps the wealthy and powerful don't either, and so a large amount of anti-poor propaganda has been generated in the US by the elite.

tcj_phx 10y ago
> places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. California's winter weather is more survivable than most parts of the country. > Part of the problem is that the US doesnt have a good plan for what to do with crazy people. We had a lot of problems with long-term institutions, but when we shut them down, we didn't actually start a new solution. We just left them on the streets. Institutions were replaced with drugs. In 'Anatomy of an Epidemic' [1], Robert Whitaker says that before the drugs were available, many people were able to recover enough to get out of the institutions. The book makes the case that commonly-used psychotropic drugs take an episodic illness and make it chronic. [1] https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/ https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/ This HN submission was from 2 days ago: Psychiatrists Must Face Possibility That Medications Hurt More Than They Help (scientificamerican.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186201 This has been my observation of the system... My friend was doing well until they got hold of her.
- eltoozero 10y ago
  This is getting downvoted with no explanation, rude if you ask me; The points are salient: I personally know a man in care who's been seemingly "kept stupid" with drugs while in an assisted living facility receiving treatment, and yes you can sleep outdoors most winter nights in CA, not comfortably but it's doable.
  - tcj_phx 10y ago
    > This is getting downvoted with no explanation, rude if you ask me; If I check my comments frequently enough I sometimes notice oscillations. That one was voted up once, then down twice, then I didn't check for a while. 2 people have since appeared to cancel out those two downvotes. After I posted that comment I thought about editing it to say something about how the nicer weather is "in addition to the state's services...". Perhaps some of the downvoters thought I was disagreeing with the comment I was replying to, whereas I actually meant to supplement his/her good points with my experiences. Edit: changed his to his/her.
- appleflaxen 10y ago
  Where is the data for the point about making psychotic chronic? Because there is peer-reviewed medical literature (meaning double-blind clinical trials) about their effectiveness in reducing symptoms, and "longer lasting symptoms" would have been a reportable adverse event that could/would have been seen. Additionally: to advance this model, you have to think that the people caring for these individuals (both families and doctors) are either unable to see that the treatments make it worse, or that they see it but are motivated by something other than the patient's best interests. My uncle had schizophrenia. In my experience, neither of these were true. Finally: these symptoms are chronic and intractable by nature, if you talk to people that have them. Look at the homeless people who are clearly mentally ill: they react to things we can't see all the time; not episodically. Asking iconclastic questions like Whitaker does is important; we need to have a discussion about it and make sure we're not completely off base, but when you look at a persons total ability to function and their global quality of life, antipsychotic medications are helpful.
grardb 10y ago
>It's just a very hard problem to deal with, and places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. The US lacks a comprehensive national plan to deal with homelessness. Do you have a source for this? My understanding is that California is awful when it comes to homelessness. Quite a few cities have higher rates of homelessness than every city in California, but have lower rates of unsheltered homeless people than them (especially SF and LA)[1][2]. I interpret this as meaning that Californian cities are generally worse when it comes to the homeless. On top of that, many cities in California make it illegal to feed the homeless, which is something you don't see as much in the Northeast[3]. I'm also curious as to how a state "attracts" homeless people. I could be wrong about this, but I highly doubt that a person becomes homeless and then thinks, "San Francisco is where I should go," and then somehow travel hundreds or thousands of miles to get there. I feel like given the numbers I'm seeing regarding homelessness per 100k people, people generally don't go to Californian cities for their homeless services. I'm open to learning more since I'm sure that there's context I'm missing, but from what I've read, California is not the best place to be if you're homeless. [1] http://acsh.org/news/2016/10/13/which-cities-have-most-homeless-people-10300 http://acsh.org/news/2016/10/13/which-cities-have-most-homel... [2] http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ [3] http://anonhq.com/illegal-feed-homeless-city/ http://anonhq.com/illegal-feed-homeless-city/
- eltoozero 10y ago
  I personally know a man who moved to CA from the NJ (fellow HAM I met on the air) who is getting treatment for his neuropathy here in CA via Medi-Cal whereas he was homeless "back home" with no relatives to support him. Anecdotal, but I don't question his story.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  People absolutely do. Spending the winter outside in Syracuse, NY or Chicago is not fun. We used to give stuff to a homeless guy who would migrate south for the winter. I have cop friends who say it's not uncommon for some people to deliberately commit a crime in front of them to get a warm bed. Also, some places run people out of town. Las Vegas in particular was caught putting homeless in busses to LA and SFO. In still other cases, there are many documented incidents were social services people in red states like South Carolina sell the benefits of moving to New York or Massachusetts where services like Medicaid are much better. (Medicaid is cost shared with the state)

tcj_phx 10y ago

> places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. California's winter weather is more survivable than most parts of the country. > Part of the problem is that the US doesnt have a good plan for what to do with crazy people. We had a lot of problems with long-term institutions, but when we shut them down, we didn't actually start a new solution. We just left them on the streets. Institutions were replaced with drugs. In 'Anatomy of an Epidemic' [1], Robert Whitaker says that before the drugs were available, many people were able to recover enough to get out of the institutions. The book makes the case that commonly-used psychotropic drugs take an episodic illness and make it chronic. [1] https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/ https://www.madinamerica.com/anatomy-of-an-epidemic/ This HN submission was from 2 days ago: Psychiatrists Must Face Possibility That Medications Hurt More Than They Help (scientificamerican.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186201 This has been my observation of the system... My friend was doing well until they got hold of her.

eltoozero 10y ago
This is getting downvoted with no explanation, rude if you ask me; The points are salient: I personally know a man in care who's been seemingly "kept stupid" with drugs while in an assisted living facility receiving treatment, and yes you can sleep outdoors most winter nights in CA, not comfortably but it's doable.
- tcj_phx 10y ago
  > This is getting downvoted with no explanation, rude if you ask me; If I check my comments frequently enough I sometimes notice oscillations. That one was voted up once, then down twice, then I didn't check for a while. 2 people have since appeared to cancel out those two downvotes. After I posted that comment I thought about editing it to say something about how the nicer weather is "in addition to the state's services...". Perhaps some of the downvoters thought I was disagreeing with the comment I was replying to, whereas I actually meant to supplement his/her good points with my experiences. Edit: changed his to his/her.
appleflaxen 10y ago
Where is the data for the point about making psychotic chronic? Because there is peer-reviewed medical literature (meaning double-blind clinical trials) about their effectiveness in reducing symptoms, and "longer lasting symptoms" would have been a reportable adverse event that could/would have been seen. Additionally: to advance this model, you have to think that the people caring for these individuals (both families and doctors) are either unable to see that the treatments make it worse, or that they see it but are motivated by something other than the patient's best interests. My uncle had schizophrenia. In my experience, neither of these were true. Finally: these symptoms are chronic and intractable by nature, if you talk to people that have them. Look at the homeless people who are clearly mentally ill: they react to things we can't see all the time; not episodically. Asking iconclastic questions like Whitaker does is important; we need to have a discussion about it and make sure we're not completely off base, but when you look at a persons total ability to function and their global quality of life, antipsychotic medications are helpful.

grardb 10y ago

>It's just a very hard problem to deal with, and places like CA attract homeless people from other places, because they have good services. The US lacks a comprehensive national plan to deal with homelessness. Do you have a source for this? My understanding is that California is awful when it comes to homelessness. Quite a few cities have higher rates of homelessness than every city in California, but have lower rates of unsheltered homeless people than them (especially SF and LA)[1][2]. I interpret this as meaning that Californian cities are generally worse when it comes to the homeless. On top of that, many cities in California make it illegal to feed the homeless, which is something you don't see as much in the Northeast[3]. I'm also curious as to how a state "attracts" homeless people. I could be wrong about this, but I highly doubt that a person becomes homeless and then thinks, "San Francisco is where I should go," and then somehow travel hundreds or thousands of miles to get there. I feel like given the numbers I'm seeing regarding homelessness per 100k people, people generally don't go to Californian cities for their homeless services. I'm open to learning more since I'm sure that there's context I'm missing, but from what I've read, California is not the best place to be if you're homeless. [1] http://acsh.org/news/2016/10/13/which-cities-have-most-homeless-people-10300 http://acsh.org/news/2016/10/13/which-cities-have-most-homel... [2] http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ http://projects.sfchronicle.com/sf-homeless/numbers/ [3] http://anonhq.com/illegal-feed-homeless-city/ http://anonhq.com/illegal-feed-homeless-city/

eltoozero 10y ago
I personally know a man who moved to CA from the NJ (fellow HAM I met on the air) who is getting treatment for his neuropathy here in CA via Medi-Cal whereas he was homeless "back home" with no relatives to support him. Anecdotal, but I don't question his story.
Spooky23 10y ago
People absolutely do. Spending the winter outside in Syracuse, NY or Chicago is not fun. We used to give stuff to a homeless guy who would migrate south for the winter. I have cop friends who say it's not uncommon for some people to deliberately commit a crime in front of them to get a warm bed. Also, some places run people out of town. Las Vegas in particular was caught putting homeless in busses to LA and SFO. In still other cases, there are many documented incidents were social services people in red states like South Carolina sell the benefits of moving to New York or Massachusetts where services like Medicaid are much better. (Medicaid is cost shared with the state)