5 ms·

There is also some really weird stuff with his kids, where at least one of his sons and the son's wife consider him to be a total fraud. Gelman wrote about it h

by defen 10y ago

There is also some really weird stuff with his kids, where at least one of his sons and the son's wife consider him to be a total fraud. Gelman wrote about it here (including link to son's page) http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/ http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/

danso 10y ago
From the comments section: http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/#comment-325017 http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/#comment-325017 > Truth is not only stranger than fiction, it is stranger than truth. Andrew’s next-to-last sentence links to: > “(The Heimlich manoeuvre) has never been used in Australia. Despite the claims of the extremely charismatic Dr. Heimlich, Australian resuscitation experts believe that there isn’t enough scientific evidence to support its use. So how does a medical procedure become so widely adopted without any serious scientific evidence? — The Heimlich manoeuvre by Aviva Ziegler, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, July 27, 2009” I'm on mobile so am not able to look it up easily, but I'm assuming there are some experiments to verify beyond anecdotes whether the maneuver works, right? Also, what do Australians use in lieu of it?
- dchest 10y ago
  According to Wikipedia: In some areas, such as Australia, authorities believe that there is not enough scientific evidence to support the use of abdominal thrusts and their use is not recommended in first aid. Instead, chest thrusts are recommended. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts
- eps 10y ago
  This was on HN some time ago - apparently there is some sort of research that states that patting/whacking on the back was in fact as affective as Heimlich manoeuvre.
  - spectre 10y ago
    The general recommendation is now to start with 5 Back Blows then 5 Abdominal Thrusts (the Heimlich), repeated as necessary. Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-choking/basics/art-20056637 http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-choking/basics... European Resuscitation Council: http://ercguidelines.elsevierresource.com/european-resuscitation-council-guidelines-resuscitation-2015-section-1-executive-summary#Foreignbodyairwayobstructionchoking http://ercguidelines.elsevierresource.com/european-resuscita... Australia (and New Zealand) Resuscitation Councils: http://www.nzrc.org.nz/training/ECI/anzcor-guidelines-2016-update-for-first-aid-providers/#Choking http://www.nzrc.org.nz/training/ECI/anzcor-guidelines-2016-u... In the case of Australia/New Zealand the recommendation is to do 5 Back Blows then 5 Chest Thrusts. My understanding is that it's believed to be similarly effective but has less risk of causing internal injuries.
  - dghughes 10y ago
    Especially if the object still has air passing by it since the Heimlich manoeuvre only works if there is a tight seal. A secretary at my workplace had a piece of pork rib stuck but there was still air getting by. An ambulance was called and the medic walked over and slapped her back to remove the food.
- soneca 10y ago
  Not sure why, but here in Brazil we only see this maneuver in American movies ad TV shows, no here uses it or would even know it has a name or how to perform it.
- gilgoomesh 10y ago
  Standard advice in Australia is: > Bend the person well forward and give five back blows with the heel of your hand between their shoulder blades – checking if the blockage has been removed after each blow. > If unsuccessful, give five chest thrusts by placing one hand in the middle of their back for support and the heel of the other hand on the lower part of their breastbone – checking if the blockage has been removed after each thrust. From https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/choking https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtrea... Note that thrusts may be used if simpler measures fail but these are chest thrusts, not abdominal as in Heimlich, and the person should be leaning forward, not held upright.
  - robbiep 10y ago
    In Med school here (Australia) we are specifically cautioned against using the Heimlich manoeuvre and we're told to use the above techniques
    - dhimes 10y ago
      My wife is a US trained physician and she saved someone using the Heimlich maneuver, so there's that.
- ajdlinux 10y ago
  We don't just not teach the Heimlich manoeuvre, in every first aid course I've attended, they very clearly and explicitly instruct you to not use the Heimlich.

by defen 10y ago

danso 10y ago

From the comments section: http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/#comment-325017 http://andrewgelman.com/2016/10/09/heimlich/#comment-325017 > Truth is not only stranger than fiction, it is stranger than truth. Andrew’s next-to-last sentence links to: > “(The Heimlich manoeuvre) has never been used in Australia. Despite the claims of the extremely charismatic Dr. Heimlich, Australian resuscitation experts believe that there isn’t enough scientific evidence to support its use. So how does a medical procedure become so widely adopted without any serious scientific evidence? — The Heimlich manoeuvre by Aviva Ziegler, Australian Broadcasting Corporation, July 27, 2009” I'm on mobile so am not able to look it up easily, but I'm assuming there are some experiments to verify beyond anecdotes whether the maneuver works, right? Also, what do Australians use in lieu of it?

dchest 10y ago
According to Wikipedia: In some areas, such as Australia, authorities believe that there is not enough scientific evidence to support the use of abdominal thrusts and their use is not recommended in first aid. Instead, chest thrusts are recommended. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdominal_thrusts
eps 10y ago
This was on HN some time ago - apparently there is some sort of research that states that patting/whacking on the back was in fact as affective as Heimlich manoeuvre.
- spectre 10y ago
  The general recommendation is now to start with 5 Back Blows then 5 Abdominal Thrusts (the Heimlich), repeated as necessary. Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-choking/basics/art-20056637 http://www.mayoclinic.org/first-aid/first-aid-choking/basics... European Resuscitation Council: http://ercguidelines.elsevierresource.com/european-resuscitation-council-guidelines-resuscitation-2015-section-1-executive-summary#Foreignbodyairwayobstructionchoking http://ercguidelines.elsevierresource.com/european-resuscita... Australia (and New Zealand) Resuscitation Councils: http://www.nzrc.org.nz/training/ECI/anzcor-guidelines-2016-update-for-first-aid-providers/#Choking http://www.nzrc.org.nz/training/ECI/anzcor-guidelines-2016-u... In the case of Australia/New Zealand the recommendation is to do 5 Back Blows then 5 Chest Thrusts. My understanding is that it's believed to be similarly effective but has less risk of causing internal injuries.
- dghughes 10y ago
  Especially if the object still has air passing by it since the Heimlich manoeuvre only works if there is a tight seal. A secretary at my workplace had a piece of pork rib stuck but there was still air getting by. An ambulance was called and the medic walked over and slapped her back to remove the food.
soneca 10y ago
Not sure why, but here in Brazil we only see this maneuver in American movies ad TV shows, no here uses it or would even know it has a name or how to perform it.
gilgoomesh 10y ago
Standard advice in Australia is: > Bend the person well forward and give five back blows with the heel of your hand between their shoulder blades – checking if the blockage has been removed after each blow. > If unsuccessful, give five chest thrusts by placing one hand in the middle of their back for support and the heel of the other hand on the lower part of their breastbone – checking if the blockage has been removed after each thrust. From https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtreatments/choking https://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/health/conditionsandtrea... Note that thrusts may be used if simpler measures fail but these are chest thrusts, not abdominal as in Heimlich, and the person should be leaning forward, not held upright.
- robbiep 10y ago
  In Med school here (Australia) we are specifically cautioned against using the Heimlich manoeuvre and we're told to use the above techniques
  - dhimes 10y ago
    My wife is a US trained physician and she saved someone using the Heimlich maneuver, so there's that.
ajdlinux 10y ago
We don't just not teach the Heimlich manoeuvre, in every first aid course I've attended, they very clearly and explicitly instruct you to not use the Heimlich.