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If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? Is Xwayland just going to become a more easily maintained substitute for Xorg?

If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? Is Xwayland just going to become a more easily maintained substitute for Xorg? I can't imagine writing anything other than a twitch game as a raw Wayland client that's completely unusable except on the one and only small computer under my desk.

cyphar 10y ago
> If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? ssh -X is hardly "everything". Not to mention that in the Wayland model, forwarding will be handled by the compositor (not Wayland) because the compositor knows what is actually happening on the screen -- lobby GNOME and KDE to add support for remote sessions rather than bashing Wayland for no reason.
- prodigal_erik 10y ago
  > ssh -X is hardly "everything". It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? There are engineers out there who are expected to never have work product on their laptop. The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case.
  - cyphar 10y ago
    > It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? I mean, I don't use graphical apps enough to care -- ssh/mosh is good enough for me TBH. > The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case. But it isn't. Implementing "-X" functionality into Wayland wouldn't make any sense -- you want the window manager to implement the forwarding because the window manager knows about the window you want to forward. The fact that X has this functionality is an accident of history. ssh -X is worse than VNC because at least VNC has some semblance of a sane protocol.
    - prodigal_erik 10y ago
      IMHO a sane protocol sends command from the app to the GPU under my desk, rather than requiring every computer in the world to have a headless GPU and a fat enough pipe to stream pixels to my framebuffer. People keep saying some other part of Wayland will implement remoting. As far as I can tell nobody takes it seriously enough to work on it, and without remoting I can't understand why any non-gamer would try to use Wayland.

cyphar 10y ago

> If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? ssh -X is hardly "everything". Not to mention that in the Wayland model, forwarding will be handled by the compositor (not Wayland) because the compositor knows what is actually happening on the screen -- lobby GNOME and KDE to add support for remote sessions rather than bashing Wayland for no reason.

prodigal_erik 10y ago
> ssh -X is hardly "everything". It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? There are engineers out there who are expected to never have work product on their laptop. The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case.
- cyphar 10y ago
  > It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? I mean, I don't use graphical apps enough to care -- ssh/mosh is good enough for me TBH. > The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case. But it isn't. Implementing "-X" functionality into Wayland wouldn't make any sense -- you want the window manager to implement the forwarding because the window manager knows about the window you want to forward. The fact that X has this functionality is an accident of history. ssh -X is worse than VNC because at least VNC has some semblance of a sane protocol.
  - prodigal_erik 10y ago
    IMHO a sane protocol sends command from the app to the GPU under my desk, rather than requiring every computer in the world to have a headless GPU and a fat enough pipe to stream pixels to my framebuffer. People keep saying some other part of Wayland will implement remoting. As far as I can tell nobody takes it seriously enough to work on it, and without remoting I can't understand why any non-gamer would try to use Wayland.