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When has China actually been aggressive with Japan, Korean, and India, other then minor border conflicts and skirmishes? The South China sea stuff is indeed Ch

When has China actually been aggressive with Japan, Korean, and India, other then minor border conflicts and skirmishes? The South China sea stuff is indeed China throwing its weight around, sure, but need I remind you that China's foreign interventions has been far more restrained than, say, the US (Iraq 1 and Iraq 2, Afghanistan, Libya, Panama) or Russia's (Afghanistan, Ukraine, Syria) even in the last three decades. Going back slightly further, Japan invaded and occupied half of China and killed millions of Chinese people over the course of a decade, while it was the US that invaded, nuked, and then occupied Japan, even though the US never suffered civilian casualties from Japanese attack. Yet you don't see the Chinese government crying out for bloody revenge, do you? One the one hand, we have China asserting claims to sea resources and sea lanes there are right in its back yard, where it has a legitimate strategic and national interest. On the other, we have the outright invasion, occupation, and overthrow of sovereign governments. Which country is objectively more peaceful?

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
In a history class, I heard or read that traditionally China never sought to become an empire in the Roman or the post-Columbus Western European sense due to their culture. I'm paraphrasing, but the Forbidden City was thought to have been the place where Heaven met Earth. Accordingly, it didn't make sense to spread so far from this Nexus, for the farther flung the empire was, the farther away it was from Heaven. Instead, it preferred to make all roads lead to heaven. In essence, by being the economic, cultural, and military center of the world, everyone would have to come to them.
- paradite 10y ago
  As a Chinese, I can see where you are coming from. It is true that Chinese people have this kind of "sentiments" as you described, as part of our culture. We don't go very far and establish colonies, we prefer stay close to our root. If you read more history of China, you will also notice that the Han ethnicity prefers letting others adopt Hans customs and cultures instead of actively adopting or adapting to foreign cultures. That's another striking characteristics in my opinion.
lisivka 10y ago
China invaded into Tibet in 1951, so China is not a peaceful country (it's binary thing, without gradation), but China is less aggressive than many other countries.
- justicezyx 10y ago
  Tibet was invaded far earlier than 1951 [1,2]: """ Qing dynasty rule in Tibet began with their 1720 expedition to the country when they expelled the invading Dzungars. """ """ For several decades, peace reigned in Tibet, but in 1792 the Qing Qianlong Emperor sent a large Chinese army into Tibet to push the invading Nepalese out. """ """ As the Qing dynasty weakened, its authority over Tibet also gradually declined, and by the mid-19th century its influence was minuscule. Qing authority over Tibet had become more symbolic than real by the late 19th century,[35][36][37][38] although in the 1860s the Tibetans still chose for reasons of their own to emphasize the empire's symbolic authority and make it seem substantial.[39] """ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%9351) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%9351)
AlexCoventry 10y ago
Wasn't the US/Korean War essentially a proxy war with China? Also, 80,000 Chinese soldiers invaded Vietnam in 1978, with the intention to take Hanoi. It was by no means a minor skirmish.
- justicezyx 10y ago
  I think the Korean war is a proxy war between USSR and USA.
- smallnamespace 10y ago
  The proximate reason for China getting involved in Korea was self-defense. It has been rather convincingly argued that if it weren't Truman and Douglas MacArthur's insistence on going all the way to the Yalu River (the border between North Korea and China), China would never have intervened militarily [1]. This is despite repeated warnings from China that they would intervene if US troops continued driving north, warnings which were completely ignored by Truman and his war cabinet [2]. The US had repeatedly sworn to not cross the 38th parallel in the past. Once the US decided to invade North Korea proper, Truman's promises to stop at the Yalu River no longer seemed credible to China's government. Note that Beijing is very close to Manchuria, and both the Manchus and Japanese invaded China along this route in the past. The US has certainly threatened war against any foreign powers that interfered anywhere in the entire Western hemisphere [3] -- not sure how anyone can then turn around and fault China for reacting to American troops driving right up to its Manchurian border. Remember this was in 1951, the Cold War was getting warmed up, and the US had nuked Japan only a few years earlier. No responsible Chinese government could have ignored the very real and credible threat of another invasion. The Vietnamese invasion has an interesting history -- the PLA invaded, failed to achieve its main objectives, then marched right back less than a month later. Certainly not a full-scale invasion nor an occupation, considering the proximate cause was to 'punish' Vietnam for invading Cambodia. [1] http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao%20Chinas%20Decision.pdf http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao%20Chinas%20Decision.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.28October_.E2.80.93_December_1950.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.2... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

In a history class, I heard or read that traditionally China never sought to become an empire in the Roman or the post-Columbus Western European sense due to their culture. I'm paraphrasing, but the Forbidden City was thought to have been the place where Heaven met Earth. Accordingly, it didn't make sense to spread so far from this Nexus, for the farther flung the empire was, the farther away it was from Heaven. Instead, it preferred to make all roads lead to heaven. In essence, by being the economic, cultural, and military center of the world, everyone would have to come to them.

paradite 10y ago
As a Chinese, I can see where you are coming from. It is true that Chinese people have this kind of "sentiments" as you described, as part of our culture. We don't go very far and establish colonies, we prefer stay close to our root. If you read more history of China, you will also notice that the Han ethnicity prefers letting others adopt Hans customs and cultures instead of actively adopting or adapting to foreign cultures. That's another striking characteristics in my opinion.

lisivka 10y ago

China invaded into Tibet in 1951, so China is not a peaceful country (it's binary thing, without gradation), but China is less aggressive than many other countries.

justicezyx 10y ago
Tibet was invaded far earlier than 1951 [1,2]: """ Qing dynasty rule in Tibet began with their 1720 expedition to the country when they expelled the invading Dzungars. """ """ For several decades, peace reigned in Tibet, but in 1792 the Qing Qianlong Emperor sent a large Chinese army into Tibet to push the invading Nepalese out. """ """ As the Qing dynasty weakened, its authority over Tibet also gradually declined, and by the mid-19th century its influence was minuscule. Qing authority over Tibet had become more symbolic than real by the late 19th century,[35][36][37][38] although in the 1860s the Tibetans still chose for reasons of their own to emphasize the empire's symbolic authority and make it seem substantial.[39] """ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet#From_1950_to_present [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%9351) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%9351)

AlexCoventry 10y ago

Wasn't the US/Korean War essentially a proxy war with China? Also, 80,000 Chinese soldiers invaded Vietnam in 1978, with the intention to take Hanoi. It was by no means a minor skirmish.

justicezyx 10y ago
I think the Korean war is a proxy war between USSR and USA.
smallnamespace 10y ago
The proximate reason for China getting involved in Korea was self-defense. It has been rather convincingly argued that if it weren't Truman and Douglas MacArthur's insistence on going all the way to the Yalu River (the border between North Korea and China), China would never have intervened militarily [1]. This is despite repeated warnings from China that they would intervene if US troops continued driving north, warnings which were completely ignored by Truman and his war cabinet [2]. The US had repeatedly sworn to not cross the 38th parallel in the past. Once the US decided to invade North Korea proper, Truman's promises to stop at the Yalu River no longer seemed credible to China's government. Note that Beijing is very close to Manchuria, and both the Manchus and Japanese invaded China along this route in the past. The US has certainly threatened war against any foreign powers that interfered anywhere in the entire Western hemisphere [3] -- not sure how anyone can then turn around and fault China for reacting to American troops driving right up to its Manchurian border. Remember this was in 1951, the Cold War was getting warmed up, and the US had nuked Japan only a few years earlier. No responsible Chinese government could have ignored the very real and credible threat of another invasion. The Vietnamese invasion has an interesting history -- the PLA invaded, failed to achieve its main objectives, then marched right back less than a month later. Certainly not a full-scale invasion nor an occupation, considering the proximate cause was to 'punish' Vietnam for invading Cambodia. [1] http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao%20Chinas%20Decision.pdf http://www3.nccu.edu.tw/~lorenzo/Hao%20Chinas%20Decision.pdf [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.28October_.E2.80.93_December_1950.29 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#China_intervenes_.2... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroe_Doctrine