4 ms·

More competition might help DB to address some of its problems, but as a commuter one of the most frustrating problems with public transport is the chaotic pric

by pluma 10y ago

More competition might help DB to address some of its problems, but as a commuter one of the most frustrating problems with public transport is the chaotic pricing. Others have explained why DB's own pricing is a mess, but on a communal level public transport is even more of a mess[0]. You might think getting a "BahnCard 100" (a 100% discount card that costs ~€400/month) might be worth it if you travel a lot but if you routinely travel by train you'll also likely have to rely on public transport at your destination but bus and tram are often not part of the deal (i.e. no discount is applied whatsoever). I live in Cologne in NRW. If I only moved around within Cologne, I could get a monthly ticket for all tram and bus transport (for ~€100/month) in Cologne from the KVB (the city's privatised transport agency). If I want to go beyond that, I could instead get a monthly ticket for the regional railway from the VRS (the regional privatised transport alliance that includes the KVB). But although I generally stay within NRW I regularly commute to a city that's not within the boundaries of the VRS (or its parent alliance, the NVR). It's actually part of another alliance, the NWL. So I would need a ticket to move within the VRS region and then another to move within the NWL region. But there are actually three such alliances in NRW and I need to cross the region of the third alliance to get from one to the other, which is the VRR. So I would need a ticket for the VRS, another for the VRR and then another for NWL. But that's obviously silly, so there's also the NRW-ticket which covers the regions of all three alliances as a yearly subscription (which works out to ~€300/month). But of course that's only for NRW (one of the sixteen states/counties in Germany) and only for busses, trams and regional rail. If you want to use the intercity or ICE trains, even within NRW, you still need an extra ticket at the full price. Likewise if you ever need to cross the borders of NRW. As for the joys of actually using and validating the various tickets you might have to buy in addition to whichever subscription you end up with, that's what the article I linked to is about. [0]: http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/werner-knallhart-das-ticket-chaos-bei-bus-und-bahn-macht-arm-und-krank/9984412.html http://www.wiwo.de/unternehmen/dienstleister/werner-knallhar... (German)

L_Rahman 10y ago
And here I thought Americans were the only ones with a chaotic set of transit agencies serving the same region In all seriousness though, I'm very curious about the structural incentives at each of these places. Presumably, the people who run them care to some degree about customer experience. How then have they built a system that clearly doesn't?
- LeanderK 10y ago
  the ticketing system is completely decentralised and the alliances did for to improve customer service and ease of use. Without them you would have to buy a different tickets for tramway, underground and regional trains, since they are probably completely different operators. EDIT: it's really complicated. One ticket for all is not that easy because there are massive pricing differences depending on the needed infrastructure and subsidies.
  - pluma 10y ago
    Fun fact: sometimes there are even different operators for the same mode of transport. Cologne and Bonn have overlapping tram/metro grids, so some of the lines are serviced by both transport agencies (KVB and SWB). Likewise the regional trains are sometimes operated by someone other than DB, like the Eurobahn. Because these organisations are part of the same infrastructure and the tickets are valid for both, they are treated like regular DB trains in station plans and connection finders. I once tried to find out whether a ticket for regional trains (i.e. S, RB and RE lines) is valid for the Eurobahn trains (which are denoted as "ERB" in connection finders). Apparently DB service employees don't have to know these things. In the end I found out that they're indeed valid even if they're not listed explicitly -- but I literally had to wait for a conductor to check my ticket (which would have resulted in a fine if it hadn't been valid).
kogepathic 10y ago
> You might think getting a "BahnCard 100" (a 100% discount card that costs ~€400/month) might be worth it if you travel a lot but if you routinely travel by train you'll also likely have to rely on public transport at your destination but bus and tram are often not part of the deal (i.e. no discount is applied whatsoever). What? BC100 gets you onto every DB train and also all public transportation in Germany. "Bei der BahnCard 100 ist das City-Ticket automatisch integriert. Die BahnCard 100 gilt in den Geltungsbereichen der teilnehmenden City-Ticket Städten für beliebig viele Fahrten."[0] [0] https://www.bahn.de/p/view/bahncard/vorteile/cityticket.shtml https://www.bahn.de/p/view/bahncard/vorteile/cityticket.shtm...
- pluma 10y ago
  Interesting. The article I linked to suggested that the general conditions for the City Ticket also apply with the BC100 (i.e. only for the destination city when travelling more than 100km). The page you linked to also is a bit ambiguous about whether the BC100 follows those restrictions of the City Ticket or not. If what you say is true, that's pretty awesome.
  - kogepathic 10y ago
    > The page you linked to also is a bit ambiguous about whether the BC100 follows those restrictions of the City Ticket or not. Yes, and unfortunately I don't have a BC100 so I can't say anecdotally if it's true or not. > If what you say is true, that's pretty awesome. Since the BahnCard 100 is created for people who are traveling quite frequently, I don't see how it would make any sense unless it also included free local transit. However this is Bahn, so it may well be nonsense!
    - pluma 10y ago
      > I don't see how it would make any sense > However this is Bahn, so it may well be nonsense! Exactly. That's always the problem with using common sense to figure these things out.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

by pluma 10y ago

L_Rahman 10y ago

And here I thought Americans were the only ones with a chaotic set of transit agencies serving the same region In all seriousness though, I'm very curious about the structural incentives at each of these places. Presumably, the people who run them care to some degree about customer experience. How then have they built a system that clearly doesn't?

LeanderK 10y ago
the ticketing system is completely decentralised and the alliances did for to improve customer service and ease of use. Without them you would have to buy a different tickets for tramway, underground and regional trains, since they are probably completely different operators. EDIT: it's really complicated. One ticket for all is not that easy because there are massive pricing differences depending on the needed infrastructure and subsidies.
- pluma 10y ago
  Fun fact: sometimes there are even different operators for the same mode of transport. Cologne and Bonn have overlapping tram/metro grids, so some of the lines are serviced by both transport agencies (KVB and SWB). Likewise the regional trains are sometimes operated by someone other than DB, like the Eurobahn. Because these organisations are part of the same infrastructure and the tickets are valid for both, they are treated like regular DB trains in station plans and connection finders. I once tried to find out whether a ticket for regional trains (i.e. S, RB and RE lines) is valid for the Eurobahn trains (which are denoted as "ERB" in connection finders). Apparently DB service employees don't have to know these things. In the end I found out that they're indeed valid even if they're not listed explicitly -- but I literally had to wait for a conductor to check my ticket (which would have resulted in a fine if it hadn't been valid).

kogepathic 10y ago

> You might think getting a "BahnCard 100" (a 100% discount card that costs ~€400/month) might be worth it if you travel a lot but if you routinely travel by train you'll also likely have to rely on public transport at your destination but bus and tram are often not part of the deal (i.e. no discount is applied whatsoever). What? BC100 gets you onto every DB train and also all public transportation in Germany. "Bei der BahnCard 100 ist das City-Ticket automatisch integriert. Die BahnCard 100 gilt in den Geltungsbereichen der teilnehmenden City-Ticket Städten für beliebig viele Fahrten."[0] [0] https://www.bahn.de/p/view/bahncard/vorteile/cityticket.shtml https://www.bahn.de/p/view/bahncard/vorteile/cityticket.shtm...

pluma 10y ago
Interesting. The article I linked to suggested that the general conditions for the City Ticket also apply with the BC100 (i.e. only for the destination city when travelling more than 100km). The page you linked to also is a bit ambiguous about whether the BC100 follows those restrictions of the City Ticket or not. If what you say is true, that's pretty awesome.
- kogepathic 10y ago
  > The page you linked to also is a bit ambiguous about whether the BC100 follows those restrictions of the City Ticket or not. Yes, and unfortunately I don't have a BC100 so I can't say anecdotally if it's true or not. > If what you say is true, that's pretty awesome. Since the BahnCard 100 is created for people who are traveling quite frequently, I don't see how it would make any sense unless it also included free local transit. However this is Bahn, so it may well be nonsense!
  - pluma 10y ago
    > I don't see how it would make any sense > However this is Bahn, so it may well be nonsense! Exactly. That's always the problem with using common sense to figure these things out.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]