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It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Bruss

by dep_b 10y ago

It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. I wouldn't mind to take a trip to Paris from Amsterdam in a slower train for 20-30 euro, but this is really impossible unless you spend almost a day piecing badly connecting trains together. Especially when it's slightly more entertaining with draft beer, coffee, wi-fi and such.

danieldk 10y ago
It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. When I travel for work within Germany or just to a neighboring country, I want to get to get from A (which happens to be near Stuttgart) to B as fast as possible. Taking a plane from Stuttgart is even faster, but since climate change is real, I am now trying to avoid flying as much as possible. Hence, Deutsche Bahn. Going by high-speed train is also very comfortable if you reserve seats and do not have to transfer often. I should also point out that if you book timely, you can often get German train tickets very cheaply at the 'Sparpreis', which starts at 29 Euro. When we had less money, we would often reserve tickets in the minutes after the 'Sparpreis' became available. tl;dr you can travel cheaply in German by high-speed train. You just have to plan your trip and book tickets timely.
- rublev 10y ago
  >but since climate change is real, I am now trying to avoid flying as much as possible. Can you go into more details about this?
  - morsch 10y ago
    Here's the IPCC's take: http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/aviation/index.php?idp=64 http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/aviation/index.php?idp=6... One interesting aspect is that for high altitude airplanes, water vapour emissions may be as problematic as CO2.
  - rublev 10y ago
    I'm not denying climate change you morons that downvoted me. I don't like flying either and if I could have actual data to solidify my decision that would be great!
- LeanderK 10y ago
  one problem in germany is that we have many high-speed trains but not many high speed tracks. High speed trains are really competitive even when you want to travel from berlin to munich (Just look at the travelling times when VDE8 will be finished). Since pseudo-privatising we neglected our rail infrastructure quite a bit (just look at the frequent complete halts to VD8), the upside was that the DB was forced to run really efficient, but not sustainable.
gsnedders 10y ago
> It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. > I wouldn't mind to take a trip to Paris from Amsterdam in a slower train for 20-30 euro, but this is really impossible unless you spend almost a day piecing badly connecting trains together. Looking on the SNCF website, the cheapest Thalys (i.e., "prestigious high sped trains") tickets are 35 EUR each way, which seems to require booking about a month or two in advance to get. The cheapest flights are 34 EUR each way, which seemingly similarly requires booking about a month or two in advance. So, uh, it doesn't seem like they're much more expensive than plane tickets—and the cost of getting to/from airports is likely far more than 1 EUR (given travel to/from airports tends to be more expensive than travel to/from city centres). Obviously dynamic pricing as practiced by both airlines and train operates makes it hard to tell what's generally cheaper, but the fact that on many routes high-speed rail has caused airlines to drop routes due to lack of custom tends to imply they are competitive: if they started yanking up the prices after the airlines had dropped their routes, one would expect the airlines to reintroduce them and take back marketshare.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  From experience, I can say that even if it isn't cheaper than flying, it's definitely less convenient. Amsterdam and Paris are close and popular so the trains run well, but try Echt (NL) and Meckenheim (GER) by public transport. Or Echt to Modane (FR). As soon as you cross borders it's a nightmare. The German trains website (db.de) does a surprisingly good job (after recently having a terrible experience with Belgian and, three years ago, French public transport websites) of piecing together connections, but that also means it'll happily tell you go take a bus, e.g.: bus-train-train-bus-train-train.
- dep_b 10y ago
  Cheapest option AMS - PAR - AMS 4th jan - 11th jan Thalys: 156 euro Transavia: 80 euro Cheapest option AMS - PAR - AMS 15th mar - 22nd mar Thalys: 64 euro Transavia: 68 euro I'm actually positively surprised about the second price for Thalys! I always got smacked with the very high prices like the first one and chose a plane every time.
deleted 10y ago
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by dep_b 10y ago

It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. I wouldn't mind to take a trip to Paris from Amsterdam in a slower train for 20-30 euro, but this is really impossible unless you spend almost a day piecing badly connecting trains together. Especially when it's slightly more entertaining with draft beer, coffee, wi-fi and such.

danieldk 10y ago

It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. When I travel for work within Germany or just to a neighboring country, I want to get to get from A (which happens to be near Stuttgart) to B as fast as possible. Taking a plane from Stuttgart is even faster, but since climate change is real, I am now trying to avoid flying as much as possible. Hence, Deutsche Bahn. Going by high-speed train is also very comfortable if you reserve seats and do not have to transfer often. I should also point out that if you book timely, you can often get German train tickets very cheaply at the 'Sparpreis', which starts at 29 Euro. When we had less money, we would often reserve tickets in the minutes after the 'Sparpreis' became available. tl;dr you can travel cheaply in German by high-speed train. You just have to plan your trip and book tickets timely.

rublev 10y ago
>but since climate change is real, I am now trying to avoid flying as much as possible. Can you go into more details about this?
- morsch 10y ago
  Here's the IPCC's take: http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/aviation/index.php?idp=64 http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/sres/aviation/index.php?idp=6... One interesting aspect is that for high altitude airplanes, water vapour emissions may be as problematic as CO2.
- rublev 10y ago
  I'm not denying climate change you morons that downvoted me. I don't like flying either and if I could have actual data to solidify my decision that would be great!
LeanderK 10y ago
one problem in germany is that we have many high-speed trains but not many high speed tracks. High speed trains are really competitive even when you want to travel from berlin to munich (Just look at the travelling times when VDE8 will be finished). Since pseudo-privatising we neglected our rail infrastructure quite a bit (just look at the frequent complete halts to VD8), the upside was that the DB was forced to run really efficient, but not sustainable.

gsnedders 10y ago

> It kind of baffles me that the only long distance trains that are still being done on European scale are prestigious high speed trains (usually connecting Brussels to X) that are much more expensive than plane tickets or anything else really. > I wouldn't mind to take a trip to Paris from Amsterdam in a slower train for 20-30 euro, but this is really impossible unless you spend almost a day piecing badly connecting trains together. Looking on the SNCF website, the cheapest Thalys (i.e., "prestigious high sped trains") tickets are 35 EUR each way, which seems to require booking about a month or two in advance to get. The cheapest flights are 34 EUR each way, which seemingly similarly requires booking about a month or two in advance. So, uh, it doesn't seem like they're much more expensive than plane tickets—and the cost of getting to/from airports is likely far more than 1 EUR (given travel to/from airports tends to be more expensive than travel to/from city centres). Obviously dynamic pricing as practiced by both airlines and train operates makes it hard to tell what's generally cheaper, but the fact that on many routes high-speed rail has caused airlines to drop routes due to lack of custom tends to imply they are competitive: if they started yanking up the prices after the airlines had dropped their routes, one would expect the airlines to reintroduce them and take back marketshare.

lucb1e 10y ago
From experience, I can say that even if it isn't cheaper than flying, it's definitely less convenient. Amsterdam and Paris are close and popular so the trains run well, but try Echt (NL) and Meckenheim (GER) by public transport. Or Echt to Modane (FR). As soon as you cross borders it's a nightmare. The German trains website (db.de) does a surprisingly good job (after recently having a terrible experience with Belgian and, three years ago, French public transport websites) of piecing together connections, but that also means it'll happily tell you go take a bus, e.g.: bus-train-train-bus-train-train.
dep_b 10y ago
Cheapest option AMS - PAR - AMS 4th jan - 11th jan Thalys: 156 euro Transavia: 80 euro Cheapest option AMS - PAR - AMS 15th mar - 22nd mar Thalys: 64 euro Transavia: 68 euro I'm actually positively surprised about the second price for Thalys! I always got smacked with the very high prices like the first one and chose a plane every time.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]