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Haiku booting in UEFI mode
- Esau 10y agoNice to see its development is continuing.
- Lio 10y agoFrom the website:- "Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful."
- hyperhopper 10y agoThat still doesn't say much. Why would I be interested in this over linux? The FAQ doesn't even say whats good about it, just that it targets personal computing, which windows and OSX would also say. Ubuntu too, probably.
- qubex 10y agoYou would not be ’interested’ in “running [Haiku] over Linux”: the latter has evolved, the former is a re-implementation of an innovative 1990s OS that has since been left behind by about fifteen years of lack of progress. It was fascinating and awesome at the time, however, and for many of us this project brings back those erstwhile thrills. It's a kind of futuristic retrocomputing thing that (I guess) leads others to still wax lyrical about other obsolete platforms such as (say) Amiga.
- jaclaz 10y agoRisking to go off topic, I remember a few years before, playing with these systems: http://www.vrexperience.net/Newsroom.aspx?id=120 http://www.vrexperience.net/Newsroom.aspx?id=120 Amiga 3000 based, and they were like supercomputers ... ... and we liked it!
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- Steeeve 10y agoHaiku is a good system for computing things but details are slim
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- jaclaz 10y agoYou are probably too young to have tested in the good ol'times the original BeOS. It was IMHO a "revolution" that - for whatever reasons - never happened. Don't ask me the actual "technical" details, but it was small, very, very fast, even on the limited hardware of the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeOS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BeOS I have no idea if Haiku is (will be) as faster as it was BeOS at the time (when compared on the same hardware to Windows 9x or NT 4.00) when compared to a "current" Windows or Linux or MacOS, but at the time it blew away any other OS, particularly when it came to browsing the web or for music, video, etc.
- ashark 10y agoFor those of us who had the pleasure of using it, the fact that BeOS isn't the dominant desktop OS is proof that we're not living in the best of all possible worlds.
- qubex 10y agoI adored BeOS but I am not sure whether the single-user “wide open” lack-of-security model it embodied was a path worth taking. Surely one can question whether it makes sense to have purportedly multi-user UNIX-derived OSes on single-user mobile devices, but...
- jaclaz 10y agoOr NT based for that matters. Talking of PC's still today, some 20 years later, more or less the only thing that may prevent unauthorized access from an intruder with physical access to a machine is the BIOS password, anything else is just something that may slow down him/her a little bit.
- qubex 10y agoWell, yeah — but NT was maimed mainly by flawed implementation and assumptions made in the threat model (crucially, assumptions about the remote and local attack surface —code execution by unauthenticated users (the world of the web) and the presumption of no offline access to local hardware (NTchngpwd)—) that required strengthening and reinforcement, whereas BeOS (and DOS/Windows9x) are totally unprepared for this kind of thinking.
- rglullis 10y agoWhy would you be interested in it over Linux? If you are comparing it for 2016 state of PC computing Linux, nothing. There is no killer app on BeOS/Haiku that could justify it. But if you want to compare it to 1998-style PC, BeOS was a really high-performance, POSIX-compatible OS. It could do things that neither Windows NT, Linux or MacOS (pre- OSX) could do, and it could do it even on very limited hardware. Nowadays, I think that if Haiku could be ported to ARM, it would become a very interesting alternative for any kind of SOC-based appliance where you'd need more than a microcontroller but something like Linux/Android is overkill: smart TVs, audio/video receivers, smart home hubs, some cool guitar sound effect pedal, etc...
- djsumdog 10y agoHuh..never thought about that. The trouble is, of course, porting anything to ARM. You'd have to maintain builds for hundreds of ARM devices with individual images and kernels, or you'd have to choose to explicitly support just a couple of devices (and then maybe people in the community will have unofficial builds for the rest). ..or you could only chose to support devices that support device tree configuration, but there's a good chance your kernel still won't boot on half of them. ARM isn't an architecture. It's just a chip, with people implementing stuff in crazy ways all over the place that will never make it back upstream to the mainline kernel. It's a fragmented mess and there's no incentive to fix it since most ARM devices are build around planned obsolescence to be replaced every two years.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago"Why would you be interested in it over Linux? " Personal pleasure of an alternative desktop. Experimental playground for OS developers. Minimalist box for older hardware with high performance. Obscurity benefit against hackers that I hear PPC Mac users still get. A few things like that. It's not competitive against Linux/BSD desktops in about any other case.
- stOneskull 10y ago"Minimalist box for older hardware with high performance. " That's what I like. For when even a good Linux distro is too much for the hardware. The slow, old thing can be transformed into a nice, new thing.
- zokula 10y agoBeOS and Haiku are fun and fast hobby toy OS'es however do not expect to do any heavy duty work under them. Back in the day BeOS would play games plus opening a bunch of videos and mp3s at the same time and have them run smooth, but it would also grind to a halt doing any networking activity outside of web browsing, printing, running Mozilla or using its native Office Suite GoBe Office or Abiword. The shine came off BeOS around around 1999/2000 when Windows 2000 and Mac OS X came out along with Linux and FreeBSD were much better OS'es for getting real work done with better networking and better heavy load tolerance. And you could do BeOS tricks on top of that on those OS'es. On top of that the Amiga OS was doing what BeOS was famous for years before just without memory protection slower hardware.
- userbinator 10y agoFrom the BeOS wiki page: "It has partial POSIX compatibility and access to a command-line interface through Bash, although internally it is not a Unix-derived operating system." From that and just browsing around, it seems to be a vaguely Unix-ish environment; or at least it has more in common with Unices than the CPM/DOS/Windows or other OS families.
- qubex 10y agoThe BeOS kernel is as totally un-UNIX-like as (say) Windows NT/2K/XP/7/8/10, designed from the bottom-up to be “pervasively multi-threaded” at a time when multi-core chips were at least fifteen years away and multi-processor systems were utterly exotic, lacking even the most fundamental UNIX precepts (everything-is-a-file; multi-user environment; GUI mandatory and in-built). It just ‘seems’ UNIX-ish at first glance because it has a POSIX compatibility layer added on top in hindsight (or foresight) to provide a standardised shell and GNU userland utilities, as well as providing the key compiler toolchain (GCC 2-or-3-dot-something, if memory serves). HAIKU is basically a clean-room reimplementation of the public (and private) framework modules' APIs and as such doesn't even (really) descend from BeOS-proper at all. (Avid late-1990s BeOS user, dual PowerPC 603e-133 BeBox owner, HAIKU supporter.)
- callinyouin 10y ago> dual PowerPC 603e-133 BeBox owner That's kind of amazing given how rare those were/are. I definitely can't top that, but I had a dual Pentium III machine that ran R5 (and ZETA for a while, which I had problems with) in the early 2000's. That thing seemed faster than the machines I have today. Good times.
- daenney 10y agoSame here. Stuff flew on my little Celeron with 64MB of SDRAM. I could do so much stuff in BeOS that my Windows 2000 installation couldn't, like actually play a DVD full screen. I was so sad to see it go, it breathed life into a system everyone else would make fun of.
- 10y ago
- rcarmo 10y agoThis is cool to see. I'm a bit sad that the ARM port hasn't made any visible progress - I remember back when the Raspberry Pi came out that there were a few discussions about other hardware being more adequate/future proof, and now that there's a quad core model it would be a great OS to run...
- mhd 10y agoAnd the Raspberry Pi's GPIO connectors would take us full circle back to the "Geekport" of the original BeBoxen.
- djsumdog 10y agoIt had GPIO? I remember the videos that showed the CPU indicator LEDs on the front panel.
- memsom 10y agoYep. The geek port, as well as at least one midi port iirc. The geek port had both analogue and digital I/O.
- tqh 10y agoThe minnowboard has GPIO connectors, and has already managed to boot Haiku in UEFI mode. A bit expensive though.
- waddlesplash 10y agoThe ARM port presently boots all the way to the startup screen, but then it halts because it has no way of reading the boot medium, because the USB stack hasn't been ported to ARM. Patches accepted! :)
- rcarmo 10y agoIt would probably help if there was some/better/easier to find documentation on how to get a build going.
- Philipp__ 10y agoAmazing! I was not around when BeOS was the thing, but I read a lot about it, and it seemed way ahead of it's time, at least to me from today's standpoint. I play with Haiku from time to time.
- foxhop 10y agoWhen I was at SCaLE 11 conference a few years back I had the pleasure of learning about haiku from one of the creators. He was demoing "big buck bunny" in HD on some really tiny and underpowered hardware. As a comparison the had builds with other operating systems and they could not compete, they ran very choppy, like 3 fps. I suggest you try it out. It's refreshing to tinker with an OS that is so fundamentally different. When I went home I installed it on a few machines I had, which were collecting dust. Tinkering with haiku sort of reinvigorated my original wonder of computing from when I as a kid, for a couple months. Later at the conference, I was helping at the Python booth, and I asked if haiku supported Python. The haiku guy was not sure but he got it to compile and run about 4 minutes later, and it worked!
- rasz_pl 10y agoThat only means one person was able to implement hardware video decoding while others didnt, nothing to do with OS itself.
- waddlesplash 10y agoActually, Haiku doesn't have any hardware video decoding. It's all software.
- sdegutis 10y agoThat sounds miles slower.
- zamalek 10y agoYou're missing the point entirely, it could be done in hardware (I'm sure they would be happy with a PR) - but Haiku can do stuff in software that other OSes simply can't; media is just one of the better demos. It follows very strongly from the BeOS demos from the mid 90s[1]. [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVydyC8ZGQ
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- Panino 10y agoI have Haiku running on an old Pentium 4 laptop. It's definitely worth a look! Just a few notes after booting it up just now: * Connected to my site via TLSv1.2/ECDHE-ECDSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 * Played a Youtube video just fine * Was able to git and build libsodium, via the installed gcc 2.95.3 * wget'd an h.264 mp4 file and watched it via MediaPlayer * OpenSSH 7.1 (newer Haiku ISOs may include a more recent release) Haiku isn't my daily driver, and I think the security model is increasingly out of touch, but it's worth a look and I wish the project well. Check it out.
- waddlesplash 10y agoThe default build of Haiku is dual-GCC, you can switch to GCC5 by typing "setarch x86" in any shell. And the security model can't be helped if we want to maintain binary compatibility with BeOS - once we (mostly) drop that, we'll switch to something more sane in that department.
- benley 10y agoHow long do you expect to maintain BeOS binary compatibility? I see in the trac roadmap that R2 is slated to be the deprecation point; is that still likely to be multiple years away? Has there been talk of an abi compatibility layer that would allow the kernel to move forward independently from the legacy platform? Sorry if these are repetitive questions btw. I'm just curious.
- waddlesplash 10y agoExactly how long is unclear; however, post-R1, we intend to stop prioritizing it, and if it does stay around, it'll be secondary to continued development. There's been serious talk of actually branching R1beta1 on January 31, so, hopefully soon. The kernel already has moved pretty far forward. BeOS audio drivers, for instance, don't really work anymore in favor of our new multi-audio API (I don't think anyone had any use for BeOS audio drivers; we merged all the open-source ones, I think), the VFS layer has gotten major upgrades, we rewrote the thread scheduler and removed the 8-core limit we inherited from BeOS, and already have added ASLR and DEP support, among lots of other improvements. I think the only thing at this point which actually is still compatible kernel-wise are FS drivers (sorta) and graphics drivers (although of these, we have more in-tree than BeOS ever did, so I don't know if anyone even uses old BeOS ones anymore).
- ktRolster 10y agoI have forever felt bitter about Haiku OS, ever since I realized they don't write all their code comments in haiku form. Sigh, so sad.
- waddlesplash 10y agoWe do, however, have a very nice collection of haikus about Haiku: https://github.com/haiku/haiku/blob/master/data/system/data/fortunes/Haiku https://github.com/haiku/haiku/blob/master/data/system/data/... :) (Although some of those are inaccurate these days - we've had OpenJDK for a few years now, for instance.)
- ktRolster 10y agoCan't you at least put one haiku in the comments? Somewhere? Anywhere??
- pherq 10y agoAnd yet you yourself Refuse to make the effort To write in haiku.
- ComodoHacker 10y agoIs it ready yet for any real-world use cases? Like torrent station/media server or NAS or internet gateway.
- chmike 10y agoWe need more OS diversity. Putting all the eggs in the same basket is too dangerous regarding security. I'm very impressed by the work of the Haiku community.
- the_why_of_y 10y agoYes, putting all our eggs in the "POSIXy, monolithic kernel implemented in C with MMU-isolated processes, ambient authority, shared mutable state concurrency" OS basket feels unwise.
- waddlesplash 10y agoWell, Haiku isn't too different from that anyways. The kernel is very much C++ and not C, and does have certain hybrid tendencies (it's a lot less monolithic and statically linked than Linux is at least), but most drivers still run in kernel space and the process model is very POSIXy, with most of the other attributes you listed, as well...