5 ms·

What worries me the most is when businesses start welcoming regulation. That means they are entrenched and just trying to keep out fresh competition.

Frondo 10y ago
I imagine restauranteurs who welcome food safety regulations may do so out of a genuine desire for the restaurant business not to sicken the public. I also imagine light-industry manufacturers who welcome pollution controls would do so out of regard for people and families living nearby. In fact, I think there's probably significant amounts of regulation that would be non-controversial to business owners, and not merely intended to "keep out fresh competition".
- Hondor 10y ago
  If a business is welcoming such regulation, it's probably already doing it right and trying to keep out the competition that's undercutting them by doing it dangerously. Really, if a restaurant owner didn't want his customers getting sick, he'd give them hygienic food without the need for any regulation.
  - tluyben2 10y ago
    Exactly. You do not need regulations for that if you have laws against poisoning people in place already.
    - sgift 10y ago
      Yeah, waiting until someone dies of food poisoning and then judge people instead of checking first if their shop follows basic sanitary requirements.
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        Well, you are running a restaurant right? There must be some balance and regulations are too easy to exploit both ways. As you well know, there are many toilets cleaner than some food places and yet they passed the regulations at some time. I would not want to have my name under a restaurant that runs that risk, while everyone games regulations and avoids the risk legally. If I pass regulations (at one particular moment in time), the insurance will cover damages; if it was the law I would go to prison/pay a high fine. How do you keep regulations fair and enforceable?
    - matthewmacleod 10y ago
      Flouting regulations doesn't mean that you will hurt anybody; you're not necessarily going to cause a large e-coli outbreak if you incorrectly store your meat, for example. But the point is that such risks are increased from a public health perspective – that's what regulations seek to prevent. Waiting until someone becomes poisoned and using the legal system to fix the issue just seems bafflingly short-sighted.
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        What I am saying is that, here in Spain and probably elsewhere, the regulations are easy to game and when something happens you cannot use the law as you have a signed paper the place is up to spec.
  - abpavel 10y ago
    >if a restaurant owner didn't want his customers getting sick, he'd give them hygienic food Regulation merely enforces your assumption. Common sense to one can be revelation to another. You'd be surprised how many cheap food outlets skip basic hygenic procedures, such as washing produce before serving.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  >I imagine restauranteurs who welcome food safety regulations may do so out of a genuine desire for the restaurant business not to sicken the public. If that is the real reason then maybe, but for instance where I live it is doubtful that that is the only reason. There are so many rules we have to comply with as a restaurant that blatantly point to protection of big companies that go under the name 'satefy' that I for one do not welcome them at all. 1% of those rules would prevent to sicken the public, the rest is just to protect big booze, meat, fish etc vendors.
  - viraptor 10y ago
    Can you tell us about some specific rules? This sounds interesting.
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    Yeah, I think we'll need some examples of that. There are a whole bunch of food safety regulations. Most of these are good, and it's really pretty awesome that most of us can purchase and eat food from a restaurant without risking sickness. It's virtually certain that without these regulations there would be a race to the bottom.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - Artistry121 10y ago
      "Virtually certain" You may want to update your confidence. Most of SE Asia has no hygiene laws for restaurants and yet tourists flock and rarely does anything terrible result. Why would restaurant eating be a race to a bottom? It already can't compete on cost with cooking at home.
      - judahmeek 10y ago
        > Most of SE Asia has no hygiene laws for restaurants and yet tourists flock and rarely does anything terrible result. Please cite your sources.

Frondo 10y ago

I imagine restauranteurs who welcome food safety regulations may do so out of a genuine desire for the restaurant business not to sicken the public. I also imagine light-industry manufacturers who welcome pollution controls would do so out of regard for people and families living nearby. In fact, I think there's probably significant amounts of regulation that would be non-controversial to business owners, and not merely intended to "keep out fresh competition".

Hondor 10y ago
If a business is welcoming such regulation, it's probably already doing it right and trying to keep out the competition that's undercutting them by doing it dangerously. Really, if a restaurant owner didn't want his customers getting sick, he'd give them hygienic food without the need for any regulation.
- tluyben2 10y ago
  Exactly. You do not need regulations for that if you have laws against poisoning people in place already.
  - sgift 10y ago
    Yeah, waiting until someone dies of food poisoning and then judge people instead of checking first if their shop follows basic sanitary requirements.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      Well, you are running a restaurant right? There must be some balance and regulations are too easy to exploit both ways. As you well know, there are many toilets cleaner than some food places and yet they passed the regulations at some time. I would not want to have my name under a restaurant that runs that risk, while everyone games regulations and avoids the risk legally. If I pass regulations (at one particular moment in time), the insurance will cover damages; if it was the law I would go to prison/pay a high fine. How do you keep regulations fair and enforceable?
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    Flouting regulations doesn't mean that you will hurt anybody; you're not necessarily going to cause a large e-coli outbreak if you incorrectly store your meat, for example. But the point is that such risks are increased from a public health perspective – that's what regulations seek to prevent. Waiting until someone becomes poisoned and using the legal system to fix the issue just seems bafflingly short-sighted.
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      What I am saying is that, here in Spain and probably elsewhere, the regulations are easy to game and when something happens you cannot use the law as you have a signed paper the place is up to spec.
- abpavel 10y ago
  >if a restaurant owner didn't want his customers getting sick, he'd give them hygienic food Regulation merely enforces your assumption. Common sense to one can be revelation to another. You'd be surprised how many cheap food outlets skip basic hygenic procedures, such as washing produce before serving.
tluyben2 10y ago
>I imagine restauranteurs who welcome food safety regulations may do so out of a genuine desire for the restaurant business not to sicken the public. If that is the real reason then maybe, but for instance where I live it is doubtful that that is the only reason. There are so many rules we have to comply with as a restaurant that blatantly point to protection of big companies that go under the name 'satefy' that I for one do not welcome them at all. 1% of those rules would prevent to sicken the public, the rest is just to protect big booze, meat, fish etc vendors.
- viraptor 10y ago
  Can you tell us about some specific rules? This sounds interesting.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Yeah, I think we'll need some examples of that. There are a whole bunch of food safety regulations. Most of these are good, and it's really pretty awesome that most of us can purchase and eat food from a restaurant without risking sickness. It's virtually certain that without these regulations there would be a race to the bottom.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - Artistry121 10y ago
    "Virtually certain" You may want to update your confidence. Most of SE Asia has no hygiene laws for restaurants and yet tourists flock and rarely does anything terrible result. Why would restaurant eating be a race to a bottom? It already can't compete on cost with cooking at home.
    - judahmeek 10y ago
      > Most of SE Asia has no hygiene laws for restaurants and yet tourists flock and rarely does anything terrible result. Please cite your sources.