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I agree. I thought that the scientific world already gave up on the idea of locality, since entanglement has been experimentally demonstrated. Furthermore, I d

I agree. I thought that the scientific world already gave up on the idea of locality, since entanglement has been experimentally demonstrated. Furthermore, I don't have a problem with accepting non-locality from a theoretical perspective either, now that I know about the Holographic Principle. If the universe is a hologram, then the apparatus that is projecting the hologram can be connected in ways that aren't obvious in the hologram.

otakucode 10y ago
It's not that kind of a hologram... all the hologram idea says is that all of the information in our universe can be represented on a 2 dimensional surface. It doesn't claim there is literally a hologram projector somewhere projecting a hologram of our universe. Such a thing would be nonsensical. If the projector were outside our universe it would, by definition, be causally disconnected from our universe and thereby never capable of influencing it in any way. If it were capable, it would, again by definition, be part of our holographic universe.
- combatentropy 10y ago
  Just because something is outside something else does not mean it is causally disconnected. The computer program runs inside the computer. The computer is outside the program. But nevertheless the computer's hardware is causally connected to the program. Further still, the programmer is outside the program, but he very much can influence it. Indeed, he brought it into being.
  - Retra 10y ago
    The idea is that to be outside the universe is to be causally disconnected from it, not to be outside of some arbitrary system. A "universe" is not an arbitrary system -- it is the whole of reality. A computer program is not a universe independent of the programmer. They both exist in the same universe because they are causally connected. If they were in different universes, they must be causally disconnected. You're whole argument rests on the assumption that the program and the programmer reside in different universes, which is clearly not the case.
wyager 10y ago
You can reproduce entanglement in a number of local theories. I always mention Einselection in these sorts of threads, because it's a very clean way to get something that looks like many-worlds but isn't hand-wavy and can reproduce entanglement via local mechanisms. In particular, contradictory measurements may take place, but they are forbidden from interacting via superselection rules (such that <x|A|y> = 0 for any observable A for contradictory states x and y). The math isn't as developed as Pilot Wave theory, but it's at least as aesthetically pleasing (deterministic, local, etc.). I guess it gives up definiteness, but in a less objectionable way than many worlds.
- zeroer 10y ago
  Are you implying that Many-Worlds is hand-wavy? It's not.
zeroer 10y ago
A large fraction of working physicists subscribe to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, which preserves locality even though it has entanglement.
snarfy 10y ago
Field theories like QED have the concept of a field, which is something that permeates all of space, which makes it non-local. Electrons all have the same electric charge because they are all different excitations of the same electric field. Does that in some way mean they are all the same particle? They are all connected by the same electric field and have the same charge.

otakucode 10y ago

It's not that kind of a hologram... all the hologram idea says is that all of the information in our universe can be represented on a 2 dimensional surface. It doesn't claim there is literally a hologram projector somewhere projecting a hologram of our universe. Such a thing would be nonsensical. If the projector were outside our universe it would, by definition, be causally disconnected from our universe and thereby never capable of influencing it in any way. If it were capable, it would, again by definition, be part of our holographic universe.

combatentropy 10y ago
Just because something is outside something else does not mean it is causally disconnected. The computer program runs inside the computer. The computer is outside the program. But nevertheless the computer's hardware is causally connected to the program. Further still, the programmer is outside the program, but he very much can influence it. Indeed, he brought it into being.
- Retra 10y ago
  The idea is that to be outside the universe is to be causally disconnected from it, not to be outside of some arbitrary system. A "universe" is not an arbitrary system -- it is the whole of reality. A computer program is not a universe independent of the programmer. They both exist in the same universe because they are causally connected. If they were in different universes, they must be causally disconnected. You're whole argument rests on the assumption that the program and the programmer reside in different universes, which is clearly not the case.

wyager 10y ago

You can reproduce entanglement in a number of local theories. I always mention Einselection in these sorts of threads, because it's a very clean way to get something that looks like many-worlds but isn't hand-wavy and can reproduce entanglement via local mechanisms. In particular, contradictory measurements may take place, but they are forbidden from interacting via superselection rules (such that <x|A|y> = 0 for any observable A for contradictory states x and y). The math isn't as developed as Pilot Wave theory, but it's at least as aesthetically pleasing (deterministic, local, etc.). I guess it gives up definiteness, but in a less objectionable way than many worlds.

zeroer 10y ago
Are you implying that Many-Worlds is hand-wavy? It's not.

zeroer 10y ago

A large fraction of working physicists subscribe to the Many-Worlds Interpretation, which preserves locality even though it has entanglement.

snarfy 10y ago

Field theories like QED have the concept of a field, which is something that permeates all of space, which makes it non-local. Electrons all have the same electric charge because they are all different excitations of the same electric field. Does that in some way mean they are all the same particle? They are all connected by the same electric field and have the same charge.