4 ms·

Not sure about on Fedora but I cannot get Hangouts screen sharing working under Wayland/Weston on Arch, though it worked fine under X11.

rwmj 10y ago
All screen-sharing and device multiplexing is broken under Wayland, and it's by design. Wayland only lets an application see its own window content and its own input events. On the one hand this is better than the security free-for-all which is X. On the other hand it breaks a number of useful tools, and at the same time I've never (provably) seen an X exploit in the wild. However it's the lack of network transparency which stops me from using Wayland in the foreseeable future.
- cyphar 10y ago
  > On the one hand this is better than the security free-for-all which is X. On the other hand it breaks a number of useful tools, and at the same time I've never (provably) seen an X exploit in the wild. The fact that keyloggers exist on Linux is because of X11's security model.
- cyphar 10y ago
  > However it's the lack of network transparency which stops me from using Wayland in the foreseeable future. X is not network transparent, and hasn't been for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQE_HDG8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQE_HDG8g
  - rwmj 10y ago
    Whatever, X is network transparent "enough" for me to run all applications I care about remotely, and I do it all the time.
    - the_why_of_y 10y ago
      In a Wayland session, ssh -X will connect your remote applications with XWayland and they will run fine, no extra setup needed.
      - prodigal_erik 10y ago
        If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? Is Xwayland just going to become a more easily maintained substitute for Xorg? I can't imagine writing anything other than a twitch game as a raw Wayland client that's completely unusable except on the one and only small computer under my desk.
        cyphar 10y ago
        > If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? ssh -X is hardly "everything". Not to mention that in the Wayland model, forwarding will be handled by the compositor (not Wayland) because the compositor knows what is actually happening on the screen -- lobby GNOME and KDE to add support for remote sessions rather than bashing Wayland for no reason.
        prodigal_erik 10y ago
        > ssh -X is hardly "everything". It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? There are engineers out there who are expected to never have work product on their laptop. The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case.
        cyphar 10y ago
        > It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? I mean, I don't use graphical apps enough to care -- ssh/mosh is good enough for me TBH. > The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case. But it isn't. Implementing "-X" functionality into Wayland wouldn't make any sense -- you want the window manager to implement the forwarding because the window manager knows about the window you want to forward. The fact that X has this functionality is an accident of history. ssh -X is worse than VNC because at least VNC has some semblance of a sane protocol.

rwmj 10y ago

All screen-sharing and device multiplexing is broken under Wayland, and it's by design. Wayland only lets an application see its own window content and its own input events. On the one hand this is better than the security free-for-all which is X. On the other hand it breaks a number of useful tools, and at the same time I've never (provably) seen an X exploit in the wild. However it's the lack of network transparency which stops me from using Wayland in the foreseeable future.

cyphar 10y ago
> On the one hand this is better than the security free-for-all which is X. On the other hand it breaks a number of useful tools, and at the same time I've never (provably) seen an X exploit in the wild. The fact that keyloggers exist on Linux is because of X11's security model.
cyphar 10y ago
> However it's the lack of network transparency which stops me from using Wayland in the foreseeable future. X is not network transparent, and hasn't been for a long time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQE_HDG8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoQE_HDG8g
- rwmj 10y ago
  Whatever, X is network transparent "enough" for me to run all applications I care about remotely, and I do it all the time.
  - the_why_of_y 10y ago
    In a Wayland session, ssh -X will connect your remote applications with XWayland and they will run fine, no extra setup needed.
    - prodigal_erik 10y ago
      If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? Is Xwayland just going to become a more easily maintained substitute for Xorg? I can't imagine writing anything other than a twitch game as a raw Wayland client that's completely unusable except on the one and only small computer under my desk.
      - cyphar 10y ago
        > If everything still has to go through an X server, what has Wayland accomplished? ssh -X is hardly "everything". Not to mention that in the Wayland model, forwarding will be handled by the compositor (not Wayland) because the compositor knows what is actually happening on the screen -- lobby GNOME and KDE to add support for remote sessions rather than bashing Wayland for no reason.
        prodigal_erik 10y ago
        > ssh -X is hardly "everything". It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? There are engineers out there who are expected to never have work product on their laptop. The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case.
        cyphar 10y ago
        > It's damn close. How many apps do you exclusively use locally? A terminal emulator, maybe a web browser? I mean, I don't use graphical apps enough to care -- ssh/mosh is good enough for me TBH. > The age of one computer per user ended a long time ago, and I'm worried how Wayland has been handwaving the normal use case. But it isn't. Implementing "-X" functionality into Wayland wouldn't make any sense -- you want the window manager to implement the forwarding because the window manager knows about the window you want to forward. The fact that X has this functionality is an accident of history. ssh -X is worse than VNC because at least VNC has some semblance of a sane protocol.