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I don't see the potential victim as very sympathetic because they were trying to blackmail someone who they knew had no legal recourse. You can make anyone wan

I don't see the potential victim as very sympathetic because they were trying to blackmail someone who they knew had no legal recourse. You can make anyone want to kill you (and attempt it) by threatening them appropriately.

emodendroket 10y ago
Well, personally, I don't consider that a justification for homicide, but to each his own.
- EdHominem 10y ago
  Wait until it happens to you. There are many crimes that don't actually hurt anyone which would still ruin your life if you were caught committing them. Blackmail pulls someone from the innocent-citizen category and puts them into just-another-gangster category in a way that smoking some pot does not. But also, there's a big difference between giving someone an absolute 100% pass and simply being able to empathize.
  - emodendroket 10y ago
    But he wasn't just smoking pot (and it's hard to imagine anyone really caring about unsubstantiated allegations of some guy smoking pot), he was running a massive drug dealing enterprise.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      Right, which existed to let people buy things they wanted, like pot. He didn't sell near schools, or fight turf wars, etc. Our silly laws, and the greed of the blackmailer, created this situation. The person attempting to pull the trigger is nearly blameless.
      - emodendroket 10y ago
        > Our silly laws, and the greed of the blackmailer, created this situation. The person attempting to pull the trigger is nearly blameless. lmao. OK dude
        EdHominem 10y ago
        If the laws were even slightly focused on harm reduction instead of stocking private prisons then maybe they wouldn't be ridiculous. And obviously the blackmailer, turning someone in for something that isn't an actual harm to society, is more of a harm than the "criminal" is. Your whole argument is "law enforcement is good", with as much proof as you'd supply for the existence of Santa. That's a stupidly naive view to have. Yes, kidnapping is bad and stopping kidnappers is good. But very little of what law enforcement does is in our best interests, as individuals or as a society. Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. With bad law backing them up...
        emodendroket 10y ago
        It's not that "law enforcement is good" or even "drug laws are good" but "hiring people to commit murder on your behalf is morally wrong." > Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. With bad law backing them up... That's not exactly clear, no. In fact it's less than clear, to me, that hiring a hitman is anywhere near the same moral level as "evading law enforcement."
        EdHominem 10y ago
        > "hiring people to commit murder on your behalf is morally wrong." No, unjustifiably murdering people is wrong. Killing someone for the "right" reasons, either by yourself or by proxy, is morally right. > > Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. > That's not exactly clear, no. Sure it is. You never taken a history class, or watched current events on TV, if you think all laws are equal and that all rulers have a right to be obeyed. Without recognizing a bad law you can't recognize good law. > In fact it's less than clear, to me, that hiring a hitman is anywhere near the same moral level as "evading law enforcement." Soldiers are hit men. Sending them some places results in war crimes, sending them other places prevents war crimes. Overall, I'd rather have and use soldiers than not. For a meaningful comparison with "law enforcement", first specify which legal system and which laws.

emodendroket 10y ago

Well, personally, I don't consider that a justification for homicide, but to each his own.

EdHominem 10y ago
Wait until it happens to you. There are many crimes that don't actually hurt anyone which would still ruin your life if you were caught committing them. Blackmail pulls someone from the innocent-citizen category and puts them into just-another-gangster category in a way that smoking some pot does not. But also, there's a big difference between giving someone an absolute 100% pass and simply being able to empathize.
- emodendroket 10y ago
  But he wasn't just smoking pot (and it's hard to imagine anyone really caring about unsubstantiated allegations of some guy smoking pot), he was running a massive drug dealing enterprise.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    Right, which existed to let people buy things they wanted, like pot. He didn't sell near schools, or fight turf wars, etc. Our silly laws, and the greed of the blackmailer, created this situation. The person attempting to pull the trigger is nearly blameless.
    - emodendroket 10y ago
      > Our silly laws, and the greed of the blackmailer, created this situation. The person attempting to pull the trigger is nearly blameless. lmao. OK dude
      - EdHominem 10y ago
        If the laws were even slightly focused on harm reduction instead of stocking private prisons then maybe they wouldn't be ridiculous. And obviously the blackmailer, turning someone in for something that isn't an actual harm to society, is more of a harm than the "criminal" is. Your whole argument is "law enforcement is good", with as much proof as you'd supply for the existence of Santa. That's a stupidly naive view to have. Yes, kidnapping is bad and stopping kidnappers is good. But very little of what law enforcement does is in our best interests, as individuals or as a society. Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. With bad law backing them up...
        emodendroket 10y ago
        It's not that "law enforcement is good" or even "drug laws are good" but "hiring people to commit murder on your behalf is morally wrong." > Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. With bad law backing them up... That's not exactly clear, no. In fact it's less than clear, to me, that hiring a hitman is anywhere near the same moral level as "evading law enforcement."
        EdHominem 10y ago
        > "hiring people to commit murder on your behalf is morally wrong." No, unjustifiably murdering people is wrong. Killing someone for the "right" reasons, either by yourself or by proxy, is morally right. > > Clearly the rightness of evading law enforcement and shooting blackmailers depends on the rightness of the law the enforcers are enforcing. > That's not exactly clear, no. Sure it is. You never taken a history class, or watched current events on TV, if you think all laws are equal and that all rulers have a right to be obeyed. Without recognizing a bad law you can't recognize good law. > In fact it's less than clear, to me, that hiring a hitman is anywhere near the same moral level as "evading law enforcement." Soldiers are hit men. Sending them some places results in war crimes, sending them other places prevents war crimes. Overall, I'd rather have and use soldiers than not. For a meaningful comparison with "law enforcement", first specify which legal system and which laws.