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How practical is it to get into programming for VR for cost sensitive developers? I feel like this space will not blow up until the tools and resources become f

by hrayr 10y ago

How practical is it to get into programming for VR for cost sensitive developers? I feel like this space will not blow up until the tools and resources become fairly accessible for the common developer.

eropple 10y ago
About $800 for either major platform, plus a PC that can push the pixels for it (probably another grand or so). The Vive comes with touch controllers and room-scale stuff, which is why its list price is about $799; the Rift is $599 but the touch controllers and the second camera necessary for hand tracking are a $200 bundle. I would not recommend a Rift; right now room-scale (diagonal placement) is experimental for the Rift whereas it's standard for the Vive, and coupled with Oculus's founder being something of a dirtbag I'd recommend a Vive on both technical and not-feeling-icky grounds.
- TwoBit 10y ago
  The Rift is better than the Vive on probably every account except large room scale, which is irrelevant to most people, and your logic is to get the Vive? You sound like a misguided technology zealot to me.
  - eropple 10y ago
    I have had double-digit hours of hands-on time with both systems including a Rift with Touch support. I have used them in a minimum-scale Vive space and something close to its maximum--obviously less for the Rift, but I wasn't even holding that against the Rift in the first place. My main beef with it is that tracking with the two-camera Rift setup is messed up. The two-camera diagonal setup is not really working and while the three-camera one is better (about on-par with the two-lighthouse Vive solution), it involves long USB runs that can't be worked around and costs more than the Vive does. While it is certainly possible that the Rift improves its tracking, I am fairly confident that the Vive lighthouse solution is going to be a better one long-term, too, and will improve more rapidly than the Rift's. Internal positioning intuitively makes a lot more sense to me. Meanwhile, the Touch controllers do have some nice features that the Vive controllers don't--and, realistically, few developers are going to target those features as more than throw-ins because the Vive doesn't have them (to say nothing of PS VR, which seems to be a strong entrant as well but I don't advise it because PS4 development ain't exactly cheap to get into). You are buying into a platform, but developers are going to be targeting all of them; both as a gamer and as a developer I would want the median setup until and unless the Rift becomes the only choice, not one of the choices. But, sure. I'm "misguided". I'm a technology zealot (not somebody who, like, looks at markets or anything, or somebody who's used all this gear). You sure I just didn't rustle your jimmies because you like the Rift? I mean, don't get me wrong: it's fine, it'll get most if not all of the same games, and while its FOV feels shrunken a bit to me it's even a little more comfy than the Vive is (though PS VR is more comfortable than both). But if you want to develop on it, it would be my third choice, behind "buy a PS VR dev kit" and the Vive, in that order--and I don't know many hobbyists who can score a PS VR dev kit, so the Vive's the only option. And now I have burned three paragraphs repeating what 'moron4hire said in the Iribe thread to disabuse you of your notions, but I don't take kindly to shots at my credibility from platform warriors. Haveaniceday.
    - sgift 10y ago
      > You are buying into a platform, but developers are going to be targeting all of them Given that Oculus finances games while HTC/Valve doesn't do it that sounds dubious to me. edit: Not impossible, just dubious. Most game devs at the moment only do VR if someone pays them as VR doesn't pay for itself, not even with all three platforms.
      - eropple 10y ago
        I am not aware of any games not built by Oculus that are permanent Rift exclusives (and those will probably be hacked to work on the Vive anyway and the developers know about it). They'll all end up everywhere eventually. This is going to be commoditized, and just like PC games tend to settle to the level of the consoles in the market around the time of release, that doesn't leave a lot of space for the extra toys of any one. For a similar situation: how many multi-platform games retooled to use the SIXAXIS controller in more than a perfunctory way? (Not many.)
moron4hire 10y ago
If you're getting started on a budget, it's perfectly valid to start with the phone you have and a Google Cardboard. The high-end systems are significantly different, but there are a lot of UI concerns that you can still address with Google Cardboard. That said, a Vive plus a good enough PC should run you no more than $1750 today, and it will go down pretty quickly.
kakarot 10y ago
I also recommend the Vive as the most viable. If you prefer sit-down VR and don't see the potential in room-scale VR, then I would recommend the Fove. It has eye-tracking which allows for focusing rendering resources around your gaze as well as some cool interaction and less stress on your neck. John Carmack was sniped by Oculus while back to figure out things like inside-out roomscale, specifically with the Gear VR, so you might be keen to keep up with those developments. Gear VR is fairly affordable if you have a compatible phone and will hopefully stay that way once they implement Carmack's reverse tracking.
- cma 10y ago
  Avoid GearVR and go with Daydream if you can manage it: GearVR used Android to bootstrap itself but locks things down similarly to Amazon Fire phones. Just go with Daydream, it is "real" Android and avoids adding another locked down system to our lives--you don't have to get special keys from Facebook to send out your app like you do with GearVR, and third party stores are allowed and practical.
  - kakarot 10y ago
    Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize that Facebook required developer keys for the Gear VR. I don't support Oculus because of the Facebook buyout, but I am a Carmack fanboy and I hope that he is pushing for GearVR / Oculus to make his methods for inside-out tracking publicly available. Do you have Daydream HMD and if so, what is your experience with it?
- TwoBit 10y ago
  What do you mean by Vive being most viable? The Rift has sold as much as the Vive works better than the Vive for everything but large room scale (which is irrelevant to most users).
  - illuminati1911 10y ago
    It has not. According to Steam statistics there are almost 2 times more Vive users. Rift is lighter and looks better but that's about it. Vive controllers are better and it has much larger game selection. "Room scale VR" is not irrelevant. Room scale VR basically is THE VR. Seated experiences are completely useless except for car/plane sims. Also Vive is pushing the open source mentality and whole VR technology forward, while Facebook is trying to create exclusives, DRM and other shit with the Rift.
ngokevin 10y ago
Pretty accessible on the WebVR space if you are interested in getting in early. Works on Rift/Vive/GearVR/smartphones/desktops/laptops across multiple browsers. An accessible tool includes https://aframe.io https://aframe.io
- moron4hire 10y ago
  I also work on a framework that is also cross-platform: https://www.primrosevr.com https://www.primrosevr.com
mustacheemperor 10y ago
I am currently employed as a vr developer and started learning using my galaxy S6 and a Gear VR. You're not going to be able to learn many important aspects of building a true immersive vr experience because of the lack of real graphics horsepower and motion controls, but mobile vr is a good way to start learning and the experience of building something in code and seeing it in VR around you is really incredible. Daydream is a really solid platform and there's absolutely a space to develop just for mobile vr, but even if you are only interested in "real" vr mobile is a great low budget way to get your feet wet.

by hrayr 10y ago

eropple 10y ago

About $800 for either major platform, plus a PC that can push the pixels for it (probably another grand or so). The Vive comes with touch controllers and room-scale stuff, which is why its list price is about $799; the Rift is $599 but the touch controllers and the second camera necessary for hand tracking are a $200 bundle. I would not recommend a Rift; right now room-scale (diagonal placement) is experimental for the Rift whereas it's standard for the Vive, and coupled with Oculus's founder being something of a dirtbag I'd recommend a Vive on both technical and not-feeling-icky grounds.

TwoBit 10y ago
The Rift is better than the Vive on probably every account except large room scale, which is irrelevant to most people, and your logic is to get the Vive? You sound like a misguided technology zealot to me.
- eropple 10y ago
  I have had double-digit hours of hands-on time with both systems including a Rift with Touch support. I have used them in a minimum-scale Vive space and something close to its maximum--obviously less for the Rift, but I wasn't even holding that against the Rift in the first place. My main beef with it is that tracking with the two-camera Rift setup is messed up. The two-camera diagonal setup is not really working and while the three-camera one is better (about on-par with the two-lighthouse Vive solution), it involves long USB runs that can't be worked around and costs more than the Vive does. While it is certainly possible that the Rift improves its tracking, I am fairly confident that the Vive lighthouse solution is going to be a better one long-term, too, and will improve more rapidly than the Rift's. Internal positioning intuitively makes a lot more sense to me. Meanwhile, the Touch controllers do have some nice features that the Vive controllers don't--and, realistically, few developers are going to target those features as more than throw-ins because the Vive doesn't have them (to say nothing of PS VR, which seems to be a strong entrant as well but I don't advise it because PS4 development ain't exactly cheap to get into). You are buying into a platform, but developers are going to be targeting all of them; both as a gamer and as a developer I would want the median setup until and unless the Rift becomes the only choice, not one of the choices. But, sure. I'm "misguided". I'm a technology zealot (not somebody who, like, looks at markets or anything, or somebody who's used all this gear). You sure I just didn't rustle your jimmies because you like the Rift? I mean, don't get me wrong: it's fine, it'll get most if not all of the same games, and while its FOV feels shrunken a bit to me it's even a little more comfy than the Vive is (though PS VR is more comfortable than both). But if you want to develop on it, it would be my third choice, behind "buy a PS VR dev kit" and the Vive, in that order--and I don't know many hobbyists who can score a PS VR dev kit, so the Vive's the only option. And now I have burned three paragraphs repeating what 'moron4hire said in the Iribe thread to disabuse you of your notions, but I don't take kindly to shots at my credibility from platform warriors. Haveaniceday.
  - sgift 10y ago
    > You are buying into a platform, but developers are going to be targeting all of them Given that Oculus finances games while HTC/Valve doesn't do it that sounds dubious to me. edit: Not impossible, just dubious. Most game devs at the moment only do VR if someone pays them as VR doesn't pay for itself, not even with all three platforms.
    - eropple 10y ago
      I am not aware of any games not built by Oculus that are permanent Rift exclusives (and those will probably be hacked to work on the Vive anyway and the developers know about it). They'll all end up everywhere eventually. This is going to be commoditized, and just like PC games tend to settle to the level of the consoles in the market around the time of release, that doesn't leave a lot of space for the extra toys of any one. For a similar situation: how many multi-platform games retooled to use the SIXAXIS controller in more than a perfunctory way? (Not many.)

moron4hire 10y ago

If you're getting started on a budget, it's perfectly valid to start with the phone you have and a Google Cardboard. The high-end systems are significantly different, but there are a lot of UI concerns that you can still address with Google Cardboard. That said, a Vive plus a good enough PC should run you no more than $1750 today, and it will go down pretty quickly.

kakarot 10y ago

I also recommend the Vive as the most viable. If you prefer sit-down VR and don't see the potential in room-scale VR, then I would recommend the Fove. It has eye-tracking which allows for focusing rendering resources around your gaze as well as some cool interaction and less stress on your neck. John Carmack was sniped by Oculus while back to figure out things like inside-out roomscale, specifically with the Gear VR, so you might be keen to keep up with those developments. Gear VR is fairly affordable if you have a compatible phone and will hopefully stay that way once they implement Carmack's reverse tracking.

cma 10y ago
Avoid GearVR and go with Daydream if you can manage it: GearVR used Android to bootstrap itself but locks things down similarly to Amazon Fire phones. Just go with Daydream, it is "real" Android and avoids adding another locked down system to our lives--you don't have to get special keys from Facebook to send out your app like you do with GearVR, and third party stores are allowed and practical.
- kakarot 10y ago
  Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize that Facebook required developer keys for the Gear VR. I don't support Oculus because of the Facebook buyout, but I am a Carmack fanboy and I hope that he is pushing for GearVR / Oculus to make his methods for inside-out tracking publicly available. Do you have Daydream HMD and if so, what is your experience with it?
TwoBit 10y ago
What do you mean by Vive being most viable? The Rift has sold as much as the Vive works better than the Vive for everything but large room scale (which is irrelevant to most users).
- illuminati1911 10y ago
  It has not. According to Steam statistics there are almost 2 times more Vive users. Rift is lighter and looks better but that's about it. Vive controllers are better and it has much larger game selection. "Room scale VR" is not irrelevant. Room scale VR basically is THE VR. Seated experiences are completely useless except for car/plane sims. Also Vive is pushing the open source mentality and whole VR technology forward, while Facebook is trying to create exclusives, DRM and other shit with the Rift.

ngokevin 10y ago

Pretty accessible on the WebVR space if you are interested in getting in early. Works on Rift/Vive/GearVR/smartphones/desktops/laptops across multiple browsers. An accessible tool includes https://aframe.io https://aframe.io

moron4hire 10y ago
I also work on a framework that is also cross-platform: https://www.primrosevr.com https://www.primrosevr.com

mustacheemperor 10y ago

I am currently employed as a vr developer and started learning using my galaxy S6 and a Gear VR. You're not going to be able to learn many important aspects of building a true immersive vr experience because of the lack of real graphics horsepower and motion controls, but mobile vr is a good way to start learning and the experience of building something in code and seeing it in VR around you is really incredible. Daydream is a really solid platform and there's absolutely a space to develop just for mobile vr, but even if you are only interested in "real" vr mobile is a great low budget way to get your feet wet.