28 ms·

I don't care how smart he is when is actions were profoundly stupid.

by woofyman 10y ago

intopieces 10y ago
Which actions, and what were the results of those actions?
- woofyman 10y ago
  Invading Iraq resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands civilians. Destabilizing the Middle East.
  - erlehmann_ 10y ago
    Starting that war might have advanced some of his goals. Depending on them, it might seem or have seemed clever. I think it is dangerous to confuse “clever” and “evil”.
  - dongslol 10y ago
    Christopher Hitchens also thought invading Iraq was a good idea.
    - CoolGuySteve 10y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
      - gozur88 10y ago
        I keep seeing that more and more from people on the left, particularly in contexts where it doesn't make sense. Like this one. You can't believe, at the same time, that Bush was stupid because he invaded Iraq and Hitchens was very intelligent even though he supported the invasion. That's not whataboutism.
        CoolGuySteve 10y ago
        "attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument." Sounds exactly like whataboutism. Look, Bush knew confidential information that no one outside the government could and still made those decisions. Stop trying to deflect this with some unrelated person who wasn't in the government, had no security clearance, and had nothing to do with the invasion. It's simply irrelevant.
        gozur88 10y ago
        >Sounds exactly like whataboutism. Nope. This is simple inductive reasoning. > Look, Bush knew confidential information that no one outside the government could and still made those decisions. Yes, and they were probably reasonable decisions, given what he knew at the time. >Stop trying to deflect this with some unrelated person who wasn't in the government, had no security clearance, and had nothing to do with the invasion. It's simply irrelevant. It would be irrelevant if people who also don't have information no one outside the government could are using the Iraq war to draw conclusions about Bush's intelligence.
  - twoodfin 10y ago
    The phrase "resulting in" does an awful lot of work in that claim. Who actually killed hundreds of thousands of civilians? Who's to say the hundreds of thousands of civilians who have died in Syria over the past few years might not have been saved if the Western powers had taken more action? Does that make their leaders "profoundly stupid"?
  - Sharlin 10y ago
    Hindsight is always 20/20.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- CalChris 10y ago
  The Iraq War. Giving up on Bin Laden. Zero-down mortgage initiative. ... Really, what did Bush do right?
  - douche 10y ago
    He did a pretty damned good job cheerleading and holding things together immediately after 9/11.
    - CalChris 10y ago
      Not really. But I'm supposed to give He Who Is Smarter Than You some credit for holding things together after He Who Is Smarter Than You didn't notice the Bin Laden is determined to attack inside the US memo? And then he gave up on Bin Laden altogether? Similarly, he blew off the Katrina briefing but pronounced that Michael Brown did a heckofa job. No.
  - intopieces 10y ago
    Launching an initiative to combat AIDS in Africa that has saved millions of lives. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-george-w-bushs-greatest-legacy--his-battle-against-aids/2012/07/26/gJQAumGKCX_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-geor...
  - kobeya 10y ago
    Economic recovery following the 2000 stock market crash.
    - CalChris 10y ago
      The non-recession recession? Please. One thing He Who Is Smarter Than You Are didn't have was a Congress intent on making him a one term President at the cost of the country. And now we have Republicans openly gleeful about Russia hacking the US. Dana Rohrabacher if you're looking for a name. Really, if you're a Republican please don't call yourself a patriot.
JamilD 10y ago
Straight from the article: This is a hard one, for liberals only. Do you assume that he is unintelligent because he made policy choices with which you disagree? If so, your logic may be backwards. “I disagree with choice X that President Bush made. No intelligent person could conclude X, therefore President Bush is unintelligent.” Might it be possible that an intelligent, thoughtful conservative with different values and priorities than your own might have reached a different conclusion than you? Do you really think your policy views derive only from your intellect?
- glenstein 10y ago
  I think a hard problem for centrists only, is coming to terms with the possibility that even flaming ideologues can arrive at their conclusions for well considered reasons. In my life I've encountered plenty of political ideologues willing to (at least notionally) concede the value of finding a middle ground. But ask a centrist if partisan opinions are sometimes not the result of biases or assumptions, but of a person successfully tracking truth, and they crash to desktop.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

I don't care how smart he is when is actions were profoundly stupid.

intopieces 10y ago

Which actions, and what were the results of those actions?

woofyman 10y ago
Invading Iraq resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands civilians. Destabilizing the Middle East.
- erlehmann_ 10y ago
  Starting that war might have advanced some of his goals. Depending on them, it might seem or have seemed clever. I think it is dangerous to confuse “clever” and “evil”.
- dongslol 10y ago
  Christopher Hitchens also thought invading Iraq was a good idea.
  - CoolGuySteve 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
    - gozur88 10y ago
      I keep seeing that more and more from people on the left, particularly in contexts where it doesn't make sense. Like this one. You can't believe, at the same time, that Bush was stupid because he invaded Iraq and Hitchens was very intelligent even though he supported the invasion. That's not whataboutism.
      - CoolGuySteve 10y ago
        "attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument." Sounds exactly like whataboutism. Look, Bush knew confidential information that no one outside the government could and still made those decisions. Stop trying to deflect this with some unrelated person who wasn't in the government, had no security clearance, and had nothing to do with the invasion. It's simply irrelevant.
        gozur88 10y ago
        >Sounds exactly like whataboutism. Nope. This is simple inductive reasoning. > Look, Bush knew confidential information that no one outside the government could and still made those decisions. Yes, and they were probably reasonable decisions, given what he knew at the time. >Stop trying to deflect this with some unrelated person who wasn't in the government, had no security clearance, and had nothing to do with the invasion. It's simply irrelevant. It would be irrelevant if people who also don't have information no one outside the government could are using the Iraq war to draw conclusions about Bush's intelligence.
- twoodfin 10y ago
  The phrase "resulting in" does an awful lot of work in that claim. Who actually killed hundreds of thousands of civilians? Who's to say the hundreds of thousands of civilians who have died in Syria over the past few years might not have been saved if the Western powers had taken more action? Does that make their leaders "profoundly stupid"?
- Sharlin 10y ago
  Hindsight is always 20/20.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
CalChris 10y ago
The Iraq War. Giving up on Bin Laden. Zero-down mortgage initiative. ... Really, what did Bush do right?
- douche 10y ago
  He did a pretty damned good job cheerleading and holding things together immediately after 9/11.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    Not really. But I'm supposed to give He Who Is Smarter Than You some credit for holding things together after He Who Is Smarter Than You didn't notice the Bin Laden is determined to attack inside the US memo? And then he gave up on Bin Laden altogether? Similarly, he blew off the Katrina briefing but pronounced that Michael Brown did a heckofa job. No.
- intopieces 10y ago
  Launching an initiative to combat AIDS in Africa that has saved millions of lives. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-george-w-bushs-greatest-legacy--his-battle-against-aids/2012/07/26/gJQAumGKCX_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-geor...
- kobeya 10y ago
  Economic recovery following the 2000 stock market crash.
  - CalChris 10y ago
    The non-recession recession? Please. One thing He Who Is Smarter Than You Are didn't have was a Congress intent on making him a one term President at the cost of the country. And now we have Republicans openly gleeful about Russia hacking the US. Dana Rohrabacher if you're looking for a name. Really, if you're a Republican please don't call yourself a patriot.

JamilD 10y ago

Straight from the article: This is a hard one, for liberals only. Do you assume that he is unintelligent because he made policy choices with which you disagree? If so, your logic may be backwards. “I disagree with choice X that President Bush made. No intelligent person could conclude X, therefore President Bush is unintelligent.” Might it be possible that an intelligent, thoughtful conservative with different values and priorities than your own might have reached a different conclusion than you? Do you really think your policy views derive only from your intellect?

glenstein 10y ago
I think a hard problem for centrists only, is coming to terms with the possibility that even flaming ideologues can arrive at their conclusions for well considered reasons. In my life I've encountered plenty of political ideologues willing to (at least notionally) concede the value of finding a middle ground. But ask a centrist if partisan opinions are sometimes not the result of biases or assumptions, but of a person successfully tracking truth, and they crash to desktop.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]