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> But what if the person engaging in the behavior doesn't mind the adverse consequences? Addiction is by definition not something that is indulged in voluntari

> But what if the person engaging in the behavior doesn't mind the adverse consequences? Addiction is by definition not something that is indulged in voluntarily by carefully weighing the consequences. I recommend you familiarize yourself with the Jellinek Curve, which accurately describes the guilt and shame that results from addiction. > What if the only adverse consequence is a slight decrease in life expectancy? Addiction itself not only has much worse consequences than that, but you're omitting the fact that addiction is present for a reason. Addiction is self-medication of excessive pain, and that excessive pain has deep, significant adverse effects. There is a reason that addiction is often comorbid with family dysfunction; addiction is a response to pain, not just a cause of pain. "Curing" an addiction involves reducing this pain to remove the need for self-medication. > The line we draw here seems rooted in personal values, not an objective standard. We need to recognize that subjectivity when we discuss addiction. The line is very clear. If you compulsively use, in a way that harms you, to relieve inner pain, it's addiction. Treating addiction as a "subjective" thing just ignores the pain-dimension which drives people to addiction in the first place, to run away from their pain. Society's focus should be on becoming more nurturing and cohesive, which'll hopefully result in fewer people being in so much pain that they'll destroy their lives and relationships just to feel remotely human.

md224 10y ago
> Addiction is self-medication of excessive pain Well if you're going through excessive pain, self-medication sounds like a pretty reasonable response. What are you going to do, just suffer it? Therapy is nice but it doesn't solve everything. Would it be better if you took the "self" out of the equation and were supervised by a professional? > If you compulsively use, in a way that harms you, to relieve inner pain, it's addiction. So this requires all 3 parts though, right? If you compulsively use to relieve inner pain but without harm, that's okay, right? How much harm is allowed before it's addiction?
- concinds 10y ago
  > Well if you're going through excessive pain, self-medication sounds like a pretty reasonable response No, it's a survival mechanism. It only reduces the pain superficially and temporarily. It's like giving an adrenaline shot to Atlas instead of getting the Globe off his back. >So this requires all 3 parts though, right? If you compulsively use to relieve inner pain but without harm, that's okay, right? How much harm is allowed before it's addiction? It's all motivation. Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. If that's why you take a drug, you're only hurting yourself by not seeking help for the aforementioned problems. If you're taking a drug just for fun, that's fine. Note that many addicts will lie to themselves and pretend the latter applies to them.
  - md224 10y ago
    > It's all motivation. Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. If that's why you take a drug, you're only hurting yourself by not seeking help for the aforementioned problems. What if these emotional issues are caused by a chemical imbalance that the drug alleviates?
    - concinds 10y ago
      > What if these emotional issues are caused by a chemical imbalance that the drug alleviates? These deep emotional issues are not random brain malfunctions, but often caused by childhood trauma, or other forms of trauma. Addiction is a pathological response to pathology.
    - crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
      If the drug alleviates the emotional issues by providing the missing chemicals or handling the excess, there could still be alternative treatments (since neuroplasticity & neurogenesis are things we're starting to learn how to stimulate). Also, I can't think of any chronic chemical imbalances that wouldn't indirectly alter thought patterns & physical behaviors over time, which suggests self-medication would need to start before those patterns can become well-formed in the brain. If, on the other hand, the drug alleviates the emotional issues by distracting from or reducing the pain, that's pretty much the definition of addiction. The real question is why not assume it's all of the things & approach accordingly? Most of my breakthroughs in addiction were the result of things I'd learned on my own & not through therapy. Yes, some of those things were suggested to me by therapists, but I did the work. IMO, the biggest key to recovery (from addiction & anything else) is the patient becoming an active participant, rather than being someone who needs to be treated by others.
  - projektir 10y ago
    > Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. Has this link been established? I haven't got the impression that these things have such a causative link. People can be perfectly normal but have addictive tendencies where they can't touch things like alcohol or gambling, and then some people may be fairly miserable but not get addicted to things. Addictiveness always seemed like its own trait, and the claim that people who get addicted to things must be miserable better have some solid evidence behind it. Really not a fan of the whole trend of trying to tell people they have "deep seated problems".
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
andrei_says_ 10y ago
Exactly. Trying to address addiction as a substance issue is extremely limiting. It is very important to look at the causes/environment and address them. Otherwise it's blaming the victim. The rat park experiment is a good read: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/

md224 10y ago

> Addiction is self-medication of excessive pain Well if you're going through excessive pain, self-medication sounds like a pretty reasonable response. What are you going to do, just suffer it? Therapy is nice but it doesn't solve everything. Would it be better if you took the "self" out of the equation and were supervised by a professional? > If you compulsively use, in a way that harms you, to relieve inner pain, it's addiction. So this requires all 3 parts though, right? If you compulsively use to relieve inner pain but without harm, that's okay, right? How much harm is allowed before it's addiction?

concinds 10y ago
> Well if you're going through excessive pain, self-medication sounds like a pretty reasonable response No, it's a survival mechanism. It only reduces the pain superficially and temporarily. It's like giving an adrenaline shot to Atlas instead of getting the Globe off his back. >So this requires all 3 parts though, right? If you compulsively use to relieve inner pain but without harm, that's okay, right? How much harm is allowed before it's addiction? It's all motivation. Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. If that's why you take a drug, you're only hurting yourself by not seeking help for the aforementioned problems. If you're taking a drug just for fun, that's fine. Note that many addicts will lie to themselves and pretend the latter applies to them.
- md224 10y ago
  > It's all motivation. Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. If that's why you take a drug, you're only hurting yourself by not seeking help for the aforementioned problems. What if these emotional issues are caused by a chemical imbalance that the drug alleviates?
  - concinds 10y ago
    > What if these emotional issues are caused by a chemical imbalance that the drug alleviates? These deep emotional issues are not random brain malfunctions, but often caused by childhood trauma, or other forms of trauma. Addiction is a pathological response to pathology.
  - crawfordcomeaux 10y ago
    If the drug alleviates the emotional issues by providing the missing chemicals or handling the excess, there could still be alternative treatments (since neuroplasticity & neurogenesis are things we're starting to learn how to stimulate). Also, I can't think of any chronic chemical imbalances that wouldn't indirectly alter thought patterns & physical behaviors over time, which suggests self-medication would need to start before those patterns can become well-formed in the brain. If, on the other hand, the drug alleviates the emotional issues by distracting from or reducing the pain, that's pretty much the definition of addiction. The real question is why not assume it's all of the things & approach accordingly? Most of my breakthroughs in addiction were the result of things I'd learned on my own & not through therapy. Yes, some of those things were suggested to me by therapists, but I did the work. IMO, the biggest key to recovery (from addiction & anything else) is the patient becoming an active participant, rather than being someone who needs to be treated by others.
- projektir 10y ago
  > Addictions are a way to deal with deep-seated and excessive shame, guilt, fears, hopelessness, despair, and loneliness. Has this link been established? I haven't got the impression that these things have such a causative link. People can be perfectly normal but have addictive tendencies where they can't touch things like alcohol or gambling, and then some people may be fairly miserable but not get addicted to things. Addictiveness always seemed like its own trait, and the claim that people who get addicted to things must be miserable better have some solid evidence behind it. Really not a fan of the whole trend of trying to tell people they have "deep seated problems".

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

andrei_says_ 10y ago

Exactly. Trying to address addiction as a substance issue is extremely limiting. It is very important to look at the causes/environment and address them. Otherwise it's blaming the victim. The rat park experiment is a good read: http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/ http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/