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After I wrote that statement I started thinking that C programs can be formatted so that they don't read very well also. In C, an 'if' is always an 'if' (unless

After I wrote that statement I started thinking that C programs can be formatted so that they don't read very well also. In C, an 'if' is always an 'if' (unless you use the pre-processor to screw it up) but in Lisp an 'if' could be anything. I do like the idea of Lisp macros where you can run a Lisp program at compile time to generate the code that is then compiled inline. What I should have said was that Lisp has no commands or structure that can't be changed. Some might argue that this is it's strength but I have seen hundreds of samples of Lisp and it looks very confusing. I don't normally program in C# or Java or many other languages but I can normally understand their code. (Lisp and functional languages are the most opaque to me) My language uses a byte code interpreter and that byte code is in polish prefix notation just like Lisp. I wouldn't want to code in my byte code either (even if the byte codes were replaced with keywords instead of the binary code). Polish prefix notation is great for the compiler but not very good for people.

sbov 10y ago
I haven't worked on a program that hijacked the core language functions in the Lisp I use (Clojure). So your concern seems odd to me, especially since you admit you can do the same thing in C. That said, I only use it in my spare time and not for work, so my exposure is limited. Beyond that, your objections seem to be based upon familiarity. I had similar ones before I started using Clojure more often. I think the notation is just fine - it's not much different from imperative languages except they place the parenthesis in a different spot - I think it's more the nesting than the notation, which isn't a common tactic in imperative languages. I still use imperative languages during my day job so I can decipher imperative code easier, but I am much better at deciphering functional code than I used to be.
DonaldFisk 10y ago
I get an error when trying to redefine 'if' in SBCL, though you could probably do it through the abuse of packages. The C preprocessor does allow 'if' to be redefined, though. No one does that sort of thing outside of obfuscated C competitions, though, so it isn't really a problem in either language. What you find easy to read depends on what you're used to reading.
kazinator 10y ago
> After I wrote that statement I started thinking You will have a better time on HN if you swap these two more often than not.

sbov 10y ago

I haven't worked on a program that hijacked the core language functions in the Lisp I use (Clojure). So your concern seems odd to me, especially since you admit you can do the same thing in C. That said, I only use it in my spare time and not for work, so my exposure is limited. Beyond that, your objections seem to be based upon familiarity. I had similar ones before I started using Clojure more often. I think the notation is just fine - it's not much different from imperative languages except they place the parenthesis in a different spot - I think it's more the nesting than the notation, which isn't a common tactic in imperative languages. I still use imperative languages during my day job so I can decipher imperative code easier, but I am much better at deciphering functional code than I used to be.

DonaldFisk 10y ago

I get an error when trying to redefine 'if' in SBCL, though you could probably do it through the abuse of packages. The C preprocessor does allow 'if' to be redefined, though. No one does that sort of thing outside of obfuscated C competitions, though, so it isn't really a problem in either language. What you find easy to read depends on what you're used to reading.

kazinator 10y ago

> After I wrote that statement I started thinking You will have a better time on HN if you swap these two more often than not.