3 ms·

The vocabulary is absolutely flawed. These are very bold claims which need to be backed up with facts. For instance, the behavior is clearly spelled out here:

by ben174 10y ago

The vocabulary is absolutely flawed. These are very bold claims which need to be backed up with facts. For instance, the behavior is clearly spelled out here: One day, one of my supervisors jumped to my defense at a team event, in an awkward display of sexism. OP explains how she felt and tells us exactly what action caused her to feel that way. However: The group started insinuating... They also made remarks implying... These don't tell me any actual actions, just how she interpreted them. I'm left to judge the second two quotes by the severity of the action in the former.

pokemongoaway 10y ago
I see it this way as well.
kolizz 10y ago
I would strongly argue that the by far most important thing is how the receiver interpreted the actions, though. Of course expanding on the actions themselves might help others understand better, but as far as I can understand, being met with scepticism for what you describe is part of what makes the experience so hopeless after bringing the courage to follow up on something uncomfortable.
Twisell 10y ago
I was thinking the same. I'm a man an being recently made more aware of how some females friend perceive some so called "un-harmful cheesy jokes" I often advocate to my boss or college that they shouldn't make such jokes because you can never now how they are perceived. However to escalate the problem up to the HR you need at least some ground. At some point she said than HR asked here to explain what she found was offensive. And she suggest that asking what was offensive was itself offensive. This is pretty meta. I don't see how HR acted badly they needed to known exactly what happened in order to act. I mean you cannot pretend to be a whistleblower but kept being shy or vague about words used. And you can't say it was edited by the press, it's a blog. So if OP is here please be clear did the manager say something like: "Guys please don't be to hard on my sweet little girl, you know she can't handle it" And then colleges could have gone "Hey here come the boss's bitch!" This I can understand, not vague and redacted sentences. Because unless you are precise (and sometimes graphic) sincere skeptical people will always wonder if it was your colleagues attitude or you perception that was flawed.
- trump2016 10y ago
  > I'm a man an being recently made more aware of how some females friend perceive some so called "un-harmful cheesy jokes" I often advocate to my boss or college that they shouldn't make such jokes because you can never now how they are perceived. Dafuq? So nobody is allowed to make jokes?
  - Twisell 10y ago
    Nope but you just have to be aware of the repercussions. My boss is really a nice guy, but for wathever reasons, he and some colleagues started a gimmick about one of my female coworker that she was "forbiden" to make a fourth kid because we needed her too much at work. While initially fun (because she clearly stated that she wanted only 3 kids as a personal choice) this joke had become cheesy and hurtful for her. She was actually starting to feel guilty because they were so insistant. And this situation sucked because she's a great coworker, a great mum and she didn't deserve to feel guilty. Especially since no-one really cared in truth, it was just "a joke". So I told my boss and he stoped quickly and now everybody involved feel better. He was just sincerely unaware of the impact of theses recurring jokes. So yes of course you can make joke but it's just critical to be aware that you can sometime unwillingly hurt people. And when that happen you should just stop this joke and maybe even apologize (depending on how far you went before you realize your joke wasn't funny).
ksec 10y ago
> just how she interpreted them That is EXACTLY the root of the problem. People interpreted them differently. Especially if there are a country / cultural difference.

by ben174 10y ago

pokemongoaway 10y ago

I see it this way as well.

kolizz 10y ago

I would strongly argue that the by far most important thing is how the receiver interpreted the actions, though. Of course expanding on the actions themselves might help others understand better, but as far as I can understand, being met with scepticism for what you describe is part of what makes the experience so hopeless after bringing the courage to follow up on something uncomfortable.

Twisell 10y ago

I was thinking the same. I'm a man an being recently made more aware of how some females friend perceive some so called "un-harmful cheesy jokes" I often advocate to my boss or college that they shouldn't make such jokes because you can never now how they are perceived. However to escalate the problem up to the HR you need at least some ground. At some point she said than HR asked here to explain what she found was offensive. And she suggest that asking what was offensive was itself offensive. This is pretty meta. I don't see how HR acted badly they needed to known exactly what happened in order to act. I mean you cannot pretend to be a whistleblower but kept being shy or vague about words used. And you can't say it was edited by the press, it's a blog. So if OP is here please be clear did the manager say something like: "Guys please don't be to hard on my sweet little girl, you know she can't handle it" And then colleges could have gone "Hey here come the boss's bitch!" This I can understand, not vague and redacted sentences. Because unless you are precise (and sometimes graphic) sincere skeptical people will always wonder if it was your colleagues attitude or you perception that was flawed.

trump2016 10y ago
> I'm a man an being recently made more aware of how some females friend perceive some so called "un-harmful cheesy jokes" I often advocate to my boss or college that they shouldn't make such jokes because you can never now how they are perceived. Dafuq? So nobody is allowed to make jokes?
- Twisell 10y ago
  Nope but you just have to be aware of the repercussions. My boss is really a nice guy, but for wathever reasons, he and some colleagues started a gimmick about one of my female coworker that she was "forbiden" to make a fourth kid because we needed her too much at work. While initially fun (because she clearly stated that she wanted only 3 kids as a personal choice) this joke had become cheesy and hurtful for her. She was actually starting to feel guilty because they were so insistant. And this situation sucked because she's a great coworker, a great mum and she didn't deserve to feel guilty. Especially since no-one really cared in truth, it was just "a joke". So I told my boss and he stoped quickly and now everybody involved feel better. He was just sincerely unaware of the impact of theses recurring jokes. So yes of course you can make joke but it's just critical to be aware that you can sometime unwillingly hurt people. And when that happen you should just stop this joke and maybe even apologize (depending on how far you went before you realize your joke wasn't funny).

ksec 10y ago

> just how she interpreted them That is EXACTLY the root of the problem. People interpreted them differently. Especially if there are a country / cultural difference.