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I agree he's way ahead of the game; being an engineer at Google would be a step back unless: 1. He gets placed as a staff engineer or director. 2. He gets a

I agree he's way ahead of the game; being an engineer at Google would be a step back unless: 1. He gets placed as a staff engineer or director. 2. He gets a new shiny project that for some reason he has reasonable autonomy over. Otherwise he'll get tired of the big-company politics. I can't imagine why a self-starter like this would want a set of bosses. He's already at the next level, building his own companies (likely an app here and there). He may not be making millions but he's got the fundamentals down. I would think that most folks on HN would much rather be able to own their own businesses rather than being an employee at a large company. Edit: further down some commenters investigated and figured it out: this blog post is marketing for a Google interview-prep training he intends to run. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13195257 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13195257

ryandrake 10y ago
Interesting how you consider "building his own companies" to be the next level. Maybe indeed this is a commonly held HN view. I've always thought doing a start-up (or working for a medium sized company) is what you do early on, in order to gain the skills needed and prep for the end goal: Working for one of the top prestigious companies. Look at all the start-ups that are evidently founded for the sole purpose of being acquired by one of the Big Boys.
- arglebarnacle 10y ago
  It's definitely true that startups are often founded for the sole purpose of being acquired by one of the Big Boys--but not so that the founders get to work there. It's because they're hoping to get rich--make the perhaps $10M+ so that they can do whatever they want with the rest of their lives. You almost make it sound like the startup is part of their Google interview strategy and acquisition is how they get hired, but I'd venture that most founders probably don't want to spend more than a couple years at the parent company. They want to start the next phase of their lives.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    I wonder if there is any data showing whether on average starting a startup and running it for a year or so is a more reliable path to employment (through aqui-hiring) at these big companies than firing resumes into their black hole job sites or milking your contacts. I mean, sure, it's a "long game" strategy.
    - thesimpsons1022 10y ago
      these companies hire tens of thousands of engineers and only a very small percent are acquihired
    - morgante 10y ago
      It's by far a worse strategy. The median outcome for a startup is much worse than the median job search.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  No, it's definitely the other way around: people gain experience working for big firms, then use their domain expertise to start their own businesses. Software is no different.
  - Avshalom 10y ago
    And then they end up hiring domain experts because they're busy running a business. I think it very much depends on what you actually want to be doing.
- linkregister 10y ago
  Thanks for bringing up this perspective. What you're describing is a good career path for a self-taught programmer without the necessary network/luck to get into a Fancy Software Company. Building one's own company to the point where it sustains you is two levels above that. Here is my model to fit your perspective: Self-taught programmer/moderately-ranked state school -> Junior developer at unknown startup -> Intermediate/senior developer at that startup or another one -> Software Dev at Fancy Company -> Start company with colleagues OR high-paid, remote consulting gigs
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Interesting. I guess it depends on your acceptable risk/reward profile. I translate your model as: Junior developer at unknown startup [Medium risk, low reward] Intermediate/senior developer at that startup or another one [Medium risk, medium reward] Software Dev at Fancy Company [Low risk, high reward] Start company with colleagues OR high-paid, remote consulting gigs [High risk, high reward] I'd characterize the last one as a step backwards IF you consider "low risk, high reward" to be the best possible situation.
- gravypod 10y ago
  He's an ex-mil, current-genious computer scientist. Working for google would restrict him to google work. Working as a contractor, with a military background and a well documented solid computer science background (not traditional of course but still rock solid), he can pretty much right his own tickets in any R&D field. I can't think of a better person to contract out too: worked intel, speaks Korean (Southern dialect I presume), and proably has held a clearance because of his MOS. He could work on anything that goes kaboom, vroom, flys, or pushes the boundries of human understanding (maybe even a combination of the three!). Hell, you could even just do "boring" old software development on contract and make sure the infrastructure behind the world doesn't fall apart (That's what contracting programmers do). If you can branch into embeded development you could work on medial, networking, sensor, mining, and aerospace gear. I understand the appeal of Google, but I'd probably say that if you're the type who likes to self study, who is so motivated that you will devote 8 months of your life to getting something right, who will pour over a book for days on end until you've soaked up every bit of knowladge, and you're someone who can take all of that and put it into solving problems then I don't think your talent will be adaquatly used at Google. Google isn't that special unless you're going to Google to say "I work at Google!" Working for yourself, on your own timeframe, doing what this person obviously enjoys (learning and applying that learnt knowladge), all while being paid exorbitant amounts of money to build or help build things that push the boundries of human knowladge and possibilites sounds more fufilling then fixing support ticket #449,823,335,465 for Module #32,388,556 in Chrome/Search/AdSense/Cloud software. But I don't know, that could just be me.
  - hex_3934252261 10y ago
    I agree with you on this. As a cleared professional with military experience, he has more intellectually fulfilling options than being a SWE 2/3/4 at Google. He can also go and get a CS PhD (he's shown the work ethic and ability) and that's a pre-requisite for most of the good software jobs in any case. Google isn't that special unless you're going to Google to say "I work at Google!" Google also pays very well for low-level roles. It's easy to get misled by economic signals. ("I'm going to make $200k, so the job must be important.") Almost no one in academia or government or research is making what a Sr. SWE (which isn't that senior) makes. On the other hand, unless you land in a research division (which is next-to-impossible without a PhD) you are largely being paid for your own intellectual depreciation. My guess is that he'll want to have his own business by his 40s, and not necessary for money. He's going to move farther in that direction by staying with research than if he gets seduced by the GoogleBucks.

ryandrake 10y ago

Interesting how you consider "building his own companies" to be the next level. Maybe indeed this is a commonly held HN view. I've always thought doing a start-up (or working for a medium sized company) is what you do early on, in order to gain the skills needed and prep for the end goal: Working for one of the top prestigious companies. Look at all the start-ups that are evidently founded for the sole purpose of being acquired by one of the Big Boys.

arglebarnacle 10y ago
It's definitely true that startups are often founded for the sole purpose of being acquired by one of the Big Boys--but not so that the founders get to work there. It's because they're hoping to get rich--make the perhaps $10M+ so that they can do whatever they want with the rest of their lives. You almost make it sound like the startup is part of their Google interview strategy and acquisition is how they get hired, but I'd venture that most founders probably don't want to spend more than a couple years at the parent company. They want to start the next phase of their lives.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  I wonder if there is any data showing whether on average starting a startup and running it for a year or so is a more reliable path to employment (through aqui-hiring) at these big companies than firing resumes into their black hole job sites or milking your contacts. I mean, sure, it's a "long game" strategy.
  - thesimpsons1022 10y ago
    these companies hire tens of thousands of engineers and only a very small percent are acquihired
  - morgante 10y ago
    It's by far a worse strategy. The median outcome for a startup is much worse than the median job search.
enraged_camel 10y ago
No, it's definitely the other way around: people gain experience working for big firms, then use their domain expertise to start their own businesses. Software is no different.
- Avshalom 10y ago
  And then they end up hiring domain experts because they're busy running a business. I think it very much depends on what you actually want to be doing.
linkregister 10y ago
Thanks for bringing up this perspective. What you're describing is a good career path for a self-taught programmer without the necessary network/luck to get into a Fancy Software Company. Building one's own company to the point where it sustains you is two levels above that. Here is my model to fit your perspective: Self-taught programmer/moderately-ranked state school -> Junior developer at unknown startup -> Intermediate/senior developer at that startup or another one -> Software Dev at Fancy Company -> Start company with colleagues OR high-paid, remote consulting gigs
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Interesting. I guess it depends on your acceptable risk/reward profile. I translate your model as: Junior developer at unknown startup [Medium risk, low reward] Intermediate/senior developer at that startup or another one [Medium risk, medium reward] Software Dev at Fancy Company [Low risk, high reward] Start company with colleagues OR high-paid, remote consulting gigs [High risk, high reward] I'd characterize the last one as a step backwards IF you consider "low risk, high reward" to be the best possible situation.
gravypod 10y ago
He's an ex-mil, current-genious computer scientist. Working for google would restrict him to google work. Working as a contractor, with a military background and a well documented solid computer science background (not traditional of course but still rock solid), he can pretty much right his own tickets in any R&D field. I can't think of a better person to contract out too: worked intel, speaks Korean (Southern dialect I presume), and proably has held a clearance because of his MOS. He could work on anything that goes kaboom, vroom, flys, or pushes the boundries of human understanding (maybe even a combination of the three!). Hell, you could even just do "boring" old software development on contract and make sure the infrastructure behind the world doesn't fall apart (That's what contracting programmers do). If you can branch into embeded development you could work on medial, networking, sensor, mining, and aerospace gear. I understand the appeal of Google, but I'd probably say that if you're the type who likes to self study, who is so motivated that you will devote 8 months of your life to getting something right, who will pour over a book for days on end until you've soaked up every bit of knowladge, and you're someone who can take all of that and put it into solving problems then I don't think your talent will be adaquatly used at Google. Google isn't that special unless you're going to Google to say "I work at Google!" Working for yourself, on your own timeframe, doing what this person obviously enjoys (learning and applying that learnt knowladge), all while being paid exorbitant amounts of money to build or help build things that push the boundries of human knowladge and possibilites sounds more fufilling then fixing support ticket #449,823,335,465 for Module #32,388,556 in Chrome/Search/AdSense/Cloud software. But I don't know, that could just be me.
- hex_3934252261 10y ago
  I agree with you on this. As a cleared professional with military experience, he has more intellectually fulfilling options than being a SWE 2/3/4 at Google. He can also go and get a CS PhD (he's shown the work ethic and ability) and that's a pre-requisite for most of the good software jobs in any case. Google isn't that special unless you're going to Google to say "I work at Google!" Google also pays very well for low-level roles. It's easy to get misled by economic signals. ("I'm going to make $200k, so the job must be important.") Almost no one in academia or government or research is making what a Sr. SWE (which isn't that senior) makes. On the other hand, unless you land in a research division (which is next-to-impossible without a PhD) you are largely being paid for your own intellectual depreciation. My guess is that he'll want to have his own business by his 40s, and not necessary for money. He's going to move farther in that direction by staying with research than if he gets seduced by the GoogleBucks.