4 ms·

What word would you prefer? How would you describe the comment "Black people eat a lot of chicken"? Also, FYI, most (all?) dictionaries disagree with you on th

What word would you prefer? How would you describe the comment "Black people eat a lot of chicken"? Also, FYI, most (all?) dictionaries disagree with you on the definition of racism. > the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

deleted 10y ago
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mistermann 10y ago
That may be the dictionary definition, but it is no longer the generally accepted definition in my experience.
- burkaman 10y ago
  We have very different experiences then. But again, what word would be better? Is there anything notable about the statement "Black people eat a lot of chicken"? What adjective should we use?
  - mistermann 10y ago
    Well, it's a stereotype, that a lot of people find offensive, depending on who they are talking to of course.
    - burkaman 10y ago
      Ok, so do you think people should say "that was racially stereotypical" rather than "that was racist"? This seems like a really minor semantics argument. I'm trying to figure out if you and other posters here actually disagree on what kinds of comments are and aren't acceptable, or just on what we should call them.
      - mistermann 10y ago
        I personally don't think it's racially stereotypical, so no. As far as I know, the stereotype came from the southern USA, is that not correct? You call it semantics, I call it calling bullshit on moral busybodies who think they are bringing people together when actually they're driving them further apart. Do you watch much stand up comedy?
        burkaman 10y ago
        I watch some. How could that not be racially stereotypical? It's clearly a stereotype, as you said yourself, and it's clearly applied to an entire race. I'm not sure I could think of a better example of a racial stereotype. You can argue over whether or not it's offensive, but that's not what I'm asking.
        mistermann 10y ago
        It's culturally stereotypical, not racially stereotypical. > it's clearly applied to an entire race Clearly? How so? You likely think I am playing a game of semantics, but I genuinely think if we keep playing this game of trying to find reasons to be victims, things will never get better, even if that is what all parties want! The reason I brought up comedians is because they seem to allow normal people a view into this world, where we can admit that black people in the south eat a lot of fried chicken. Know why? Because it's cheap, and delicious! Do some racist rednecks still say things like that with an intent to cause harm? Yes, and what should we do? Laugh at them for using such an old, tired, irrelevant, pathetic joke of an attack. Because really, it's really nothing more than that, the rest of "what's there" is often purely in our minds. We're telling helpless teenagers that don't know any better over and over that a huge portion of the population hate them because of their race, and it is simply not true! We seem determined as a society that racism lives on forever, and it is really unfortunate. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIgSQDQC0qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIgSQDQC0qc What should New Zealander's do here, fire up the navy for a show of force off the coast of Sydney? Or should they crack a smile and say "good on ya mate"? Will we forever think of people who have a different color of skin than us...or actually, to be more precise, that have non-white skin, because that's what it's really about, isn't it, thinking that people who are non-white are "different" and must be handled with extreme caution. I reject that completely.
Sacho 10y ago
This kind of broad definition I find fairly incoherent, because it mixes an emotionally neutral situation(e.g. "black people eat a lot of chicken", which requires context to get any positivity or negativity from) with very emotionally charged situations("especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races"). It's the difference between "the japanese eat a lot of fish, which is peculiar" - a very natural determination for humans to make, owing to our base pattern matching capabilities and curiosity, and "the japanese untermensch feed on garbage from the sea", which is an emotionally charged condemnation of the nationality. Mixing definitions this way allows activists to declare almost everything racist, which people immediately associate with the worst possible situation. This gives them power over conversations via a motte and bailey tactic - they will demand that their opponents and critics are racist, invoking terrible imagery in neutral observers; once the critics question this, they will retreat to their motte, qualifying their statements were just following the dictionary definition; when the critics are no longer there to rebut the statement, they will dive back to the bailey of claiming "racism" without the qualifications evoked.

deleted 10y ago

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mistermann 10y ago

That may be the dictionary definition, but it is no longer the generally accepted definition in my experience.

burkaman 10y ago
We have very different experiences then. But again, what word would be better? Is there anything notable about the statement "Black people eat a lot of chicken"? What adjective should we use?
- mistermann 10y ago
  Well, it's a stereotype, that a lot of people find offensive, depending on who they are talking to of course.
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Ok, so do you think people should say "that was racially stereotypical" rather than "that was racist"? This seems like a really minor semantics argument. I'm trying to figure out if you and other posters here actually disagree on what kinds of comments are and aren't acceptable, or just on what we should call them.
    - mistermann 10y ago
      I personally don't think it's racially stereotypical, so no. As far as I know, the stereotype came from the southern USA, is that not correct? You call it semantics, I call it calling bullshit on moral busybodies who think they are bringing people together when actually they're driving them further apart. Do you watch much stand up comedy?
      - burkaman 10y ago
        I watch some. How could that not be racially stereotypical? It's clearly a stereotype, as you said yourself, and it's clearly applied to an entire race. I'm not sure I could think of a better example of a racial stereotype. You can argue over whether or not it's offensive, but that's not what I'm asking.
        mistermann 10y ago
        It's culturally stereotypical, not racially stereotypical. > it's clearly applied to an entire race Clearly? How so? You likely think I am playing a game of semantics, but I genuinely think if we keep playing this game of trying to find reasons to be victims, things will never get better, even if that is what all parties want! The reason I brought up comedians is because they seem to allow normal people a view into this world, where we can admit that black people in the south eat a lot of fried chicken. Know why? Because it's cheap, and delicious! Do some racist rednecks still say things like that with an intent to cause harm? Yes, and what should we do? Laugh at them for using such an old, tired, irrelevant, pathetic joke of an attack. Because really, it's really nothing more than that, the rest of "what's there" is often purely in our minds. We're telling helpless teenagers that don't know any better over and over that a huge portion of the population hate them because of their race, and it is simply not true! We seem determined as a society that racism lives on forever, and it is really unfortunate. For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIgSQDQC0qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIgSQDQC0qc What should New Zealander's do here, fire up the navy for a show of force off the coast of Sydney? Or should they crack a smile and say "good on ya mate"? Will we forever think of people who have a different color of skin than us...or actually, to be more precise, that have non-white skin, because that's what it's really about, isn't it, thinking that people who are non-white are "different" and must be handled with extreme caution. I reject that completely.

Sacho 10y ago

This kind of broad definition I find fairly incoherent, because it mixes an emotionally neutral situation(e.g. "black people eat a lot of chicken", which requires context to get any positivity or negativity from) with very emotionally charged situations("especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races"). It's the difference between "the japanese eat a lot of fish, which is peculiar" - a very natural determination for humans to make, owing to our base pattern matching capabilities and curiosity, and "the japanese untermensch feed on garbage from the sea", which is an emotionally charged condemnation of the nationality. Mixing definitions this way allows activists to declare almost everything racist, which people immediately associate with the worst possible situation. This gives them power over conversations via a motte and bailey tactic - they will demand that their opponents and critics are racist, invoking terrible imagery in neutral observers; once the critics question this, they will retreat to their motte, qualifying their statements were just following the dictionary definition; when the critics are no longer there to rebut the statement, they will dive back to the bailey of claiming "racism" without the qualifications evoked.