4 ms·

I agree with the distinction you're making, but I don't see at all how it supports the "almost never teasing" lead-in. I'm making a general point, and there are

I agree with the distinction you're making, but I don't see at all how it supports the "almost never teasing" lead-in. I'm making a general point, and there are plenty of workplaces where "different subjects and people laugh at themselves also" is a perfectly good summary. I also agree that teasing really shouldn't tread on race/sex/etc - even if it's innocently meant it can easily be a topic too raw for human, and too similar to not-at-all-innocent comments. Which is why your last line is jarring - it's almost exactly the sort of comment that you and the original post are objecting to!

optimuspaul 10y ago
I think they way you know it's "almost never teasing" is that these people are not friends, they are co-workers.
- mistermann 10y ago
  I don't mean offense, but this comment seems completely insane to me - you are saying that in the majority of cases, anything insulting said among coworkers is meant as an insult rather than good-natured ribbing? I look at the world today and despite an absolutely massive improvement in acceptance of diversity, many so called minorities seem to think things are even worse. It makes me wonder if there is some sort of cultural misunderstanding in play here, whereby "people of color" (I despise that term) have finally achieved pure acceptance to the degree that people feel completely comfortable with them enough to not walk on eggshells in their speech, cultural harmony has finally been completely achieved, but then the informality of speech between close friends is mistakenly taken as an insult, the reaction is holy shit what a bitch, and we're back to where we started. Somewhat naive, of course. Completely wrong - I doubt it.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Coworkers are not friends as a general rule. You get to choose your friends--you don't get to choose your conworkers. As a consequence, the inter-coworker relationship is a highly artificial and delicate one. Good natured ribbing has no place in it.
    - markdog12 10y ago
      Yet good natured ribbing between co-workers happens all the time. And many co-workers like each other and became good friends.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        And many don't, but are provided with no effective way to avoid it. I'm not sure what your argument is here.
    - pen2l 10y ago
      > You get to choose your friends--you don't get to choose your conworkers. I don't like that you say this. For us introverted folks, that's the only way some of us meet. This is, in a way, questioning the sincerity of my friendship with my coworker... with whom I'm now connected with pretty intimately. I know I became close with this person because I was forced to be with her 7 hours a day every weekday for 3 years. No way I would have become so connected were it not for this weird scenario. And besides, when choosing friends myself I'm probably going to find like-minded people... life is more exciting the other way... and that's more likely to happen when relationships are made without your choice.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        Nobody is saying you can't befriend your coworkers. They're saying that you can't presume friendship with coworkers as an excuse to treat them unprofessionally.
Fnoord 10y ago
> but I don't see at all how it supports the "almost never teasing" lead-in Agreed! Not sure where the theory I use is from but allow me to explain: Ring 0: 0-5 people. Your best friends. Can be family members, too. Max 5 people, likely less. Ring 1: Your other family, and friends. (These are not your Facebook friends.) Ring 2: Everyone else you know, or think you know. Your co-workers are probably in ring 2. You barely know them, if at all, and you must stay courteous to them by default. Maybe you drink a cup of coffee with a few of them during a break, and eventually get close and get to ring 1 (or even 0, just don't dream about that). [Note I am not sure if there is also a ring 3 to distinct further. I don't use it.] So IOW I default co-workers in ring 2. Those people in ring 0, you can say pretty much anything you want to them. I can make a very, very bad joke about something to people in ring 0 and they'll know I am joking. They can take the offence, and I can take offence from them as well, besides I know when they're joking and when not. It is because I know these people very well, for a longer period of time, and I love them. You don't make friends, you become friends; ie. you can't really force people to get higher in the ring. It kinda goes natural, over time. The people in ring 2 require a professional attitude. Those are your co-workers. You don't insult them, you don't hurt them, you don't bully them, and... you don't tease them. Why not? Teasing belongs to those in ring 0, and perhaps in ring 1 provided you're careful. > Which is why your last line is jarring - it's almost exactly the sort of comment that you and the original post are objecting to! Oh, in such a situation I'd keep it before me, so that'd be some kind of thought crime. The reason why it matters in this context tho is because that detail makes it easy to envision how she became a victim of bullies. You see, bullies pick their victim like a leopard picks their pray. In this example they wouldn't pick a vocal woman who seems to stand up for themselves.
- thinkmassive 10y ago
  I like your explanation using rings, and I'd say there is a ring 3 which is new acquaintances. For instance, someone who you're introduced to by a ring 1 or 2, and end up hanging out with for the remainder of a night out. They're not as much a stranger as someone you pass on the sidewalk, but you only know about them based on what they've told you during this first extended encounter.

optimuspaul 10y ago

I think they way you know it's "almost never teasing" is that these people are not friends, they are co-workers.

mistermann 10y ago
I don't mean offense, but this comment seems completely insane to me - you are saying that in the majority of cases, anything insulting said among coworkers is meant as an insult rather than good-natured ribbing? I look at the world today and despite an absolutely massive improvement in acceptance of diversity, many so called minorities seem to think things are even worse. It makes me wonder if there is some sort of cultural misunderstanding in play here, whereby "people of color" (I despise that term) have finally achieved pure acceptance to the degree that people feel completely comfortable with them enough to not walk on eggshells in their speech, cultural harmony has finally been completely achieved, but then the informality of speech between close friends is mistakenly taken as an insult, the reaction is holy shit what a bitch, and we're back to where we started. Somewhat naive, of course. Completely wrong - I doubt it.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Coworkers are not friends as a general rule. You get to choose your friends--you don't get to choose your conworkers. As a consequence, the inter-coworker relationship is a highly artificial and delicate one. Good natured ribbing has no place in it.
  - markdog12 10y ago
    Yet good natured ribbing between co-workers happens all the time. And many co-workers like each other and became good friends.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      And many don't, but are provided with no effective way to avoid it. I'm not sure what your argument is here.
  - pen2l 10y ago
    > You get to choose your friends--you don't get to choose your conworkers. I don't like that you say this. For us introverted folks, that's the only way some of us meet. This is, in a way, questioning the sincerity of my friendship with my coworker... with whom I'm now connected with pretty intimately. I know I became close with this person because I was forced to be with her 7 hours a day every weekday for 3 years. No way I would have become so connected were it not for this weird scenario. And besides, when choosing friends myself I'm probably going to find like-minded people... life is more exciting the other way... and that's more likely to happen when relationships are made without your choice.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      Nobody is saying you can't befriend your coworkers. They're saying that you can't presume friendship with coworkers as an excuse to treat them unprofessionally.

Fnoord 10y ago

> but I don't see at all how it supports the "almost never teasing" lead-in Agreed! Not sure where the theory I use is from but allow me to explain: Ring 0: 0-5 people. Your best friends. Can be family members, too. Max 5 people, likely less. Ring 1: Your other family, and friends. (These are not your Facebook friends.) Ring 2: Everyone else you know, or think you know. Your co-workers are probably in ring 2. You barely know them, if at all, and you must stay courteous to them by default. Maybe you drink a cup of coffee with a few of them during a break, and eventually get close and get to ring 1 (or even 0, just don't dream about that). [Note I am not sure if there is also a ring 3 to distinct further. I don't use it.] So IOW I default co-workers in ring 2. Those people in ring 0, you can say pretty much anything you want to them. I can make a very, very bad joke about something to people in ring 0 and they'll know I am joking. They can take the offence, and I can take offence from them as well, besides I know when they're joking and when not. It is because I know these people very well, for a longer period of time, and I love them. You don't make friends, you become friends; ie. you can't really force people to get higher in the ring. It kinda goes natural, over time. The people in ring 2 require a professional attitude. Those are your co-workers. You don't insult them, you don't hurt them, you don't bully them, and... you don't tease them. Why not? Teasing belongs to those in ring 0, and perhaps in ring 1 provided you're careful. > Which is why your last line is jarring - it's almost exactly the sort of comment that you and the original post are objecting to! Oh, in such a situation I'd keep it before me, so that'd be some kind of thought crime. The reason why it matters in this context tho is because that detail makes it easy to envision how she became a victim of bullies. You see, bullies pick their victim like a leopard picks their pray. In this example they wouldn't pick a vocal woman who seems to stand up for themselves.

thinkmassive 10y ago
I like your explanation using rings, and I'd say there is a ring 3 which is new acquaintances. For instance, someone who you're introduced to by a ring 1 or 2, and end up hanging out with for the remainder of a night out. They're not as much a stranger as someone you pass on the sidewalk, but you only know about them based on what they've told you during this first extended encounter.