4 ms·

It's a weird experience if you're a clever youngster. I liken it to speed vs torque. I have to rely on being fast and being able to scan a problem as fast as I

It's a weird experience if you're a clever youngster. I liken it to speed vs torque. I have to rely on being fast and being able to scan a problem as fast as I can to understand it. But an older engineer will just know the lay of the land. I had this happen a lot with an older electrical engineer. He seemed slow and I looked to run circles around everyone, but he could point to things as a root cause before I even understood the problem. I would have to spend time to decompress his observations to backtrack how he figured it out, and you start to realize that his shortcuts and heuristics are just so much better than mine. I wish all young engineers to have the opportunity to be whooped by the tortoise. Sometimes I would spot something he didn't, but it was frequently because I was approaching from a position of ignorance. It worried me that someday I'll lose that edge, but I guess it's why a good team will be diverse and balanced.

err4nt 10y ago
sounds like your approach complimented his as much as his complemented yours!
nervousvarun 10y ago
This is fundamentally true and basically is a great anecdotal argument for why we have the concept of a PE. Edit: Context is America and also obviously this isn't a thing in software but is very much the normal way of doing business in classical engineering.
- mitchty 10y ago
  Where I work now we have PE's in software roles and I'm in America.
- marcell 10y ago
  What is a PE?
  - robotresearcher 10y ago
    Professional Engineer. It's an anointed position from an association of engineers, like an old-time guild. There's a duty to mentor youngsters, and a requirement for youngsters to spend time being mentored before getting PE status themselves.
    - BatFastard 10y ago
      I don't believe the concept of PE extends to software. I know its true for architecture, you need a PE to sign off on big structures. I would LOVE to have it in software.
      - robotresearcher 10y ago
        > I would LOVE to have it in software. Sounds good at first thought. Reliable quality and ethics for software engineers, right? On the other hand, you're inviting a special interest group to restrict the supply of software engineers and dictate university curricula. These professional programs/societies tend to be very conservative (engineers, doctors, lawyers) and have their members' interests possibly before society as a whole. Overall it probably still makes sense for the traditional professions. But as a CS prof watching my engineering academic neighbors struggle with scheduling, staffing and difficulty updating things, I really don't want the external constraints on our academic program. Overall, the community has not yet agreed that professional software engineering is a thing, though there have been several attempts to kick start it.
  - GFischer 10y ago
    I hope he clarifies, but I think it stands for Principal Engineer.
vvanders 10y ago
Yup, I worked with some grey-beards in the GPU space and holy shit did they know their stuff, root causes and the like. My experience mirrored yours almost exactly. The best ones are also pretty enthusiastic to share and educate. This group was very much like that and I'm incredibly grateful for all the things I learned.
- divbit 10y ago
  >root causes Maybe years of tracking down bugs has a payoff
zackmorris 10y ago
I'm on the opposite end of this as I'm pushing 40. It's like speed chess vs chess over snail mail. I tend to see all the way to the end of a problem within moments of hearing about it, already formulating solutions to edge cases 10 steps ahead while others seem to ask almost quaint questions about the first step. They spin very quickly while I don't appear to be doing anything at all, yet I often go completely around a problem. It generally takes me longer to explain how I arrived at the solution than it does to just solve it. But I've been trying to be more communicative, to work in a more communal way so that others can participate and I can count on them. Of course nobody believes me about any of this and I've long given up trying to explain. I just quietly go about my work. It's frustrating though because I have no real leverage, no way to demonstrate my experience other than to just keep plodding odd glacially. I've utterly failed in any kind of management role but at the same time am having a hard time letting go of being a "hands on" dev in the trenches. I just hope that the level playing field of the internet dissolves agism before I'm faced with its ramifications. An added bonus of brain age is being able to remember people's names. I never used to be able to do that, and I never tried to learn. It just happened one day. I guess I care more about people now and it seems like the least I can do is remember their fricken name.
- HCIdivision17 10y ago
  My friend would always talk about old war stories. And he'd repeat too :) But his son said jokingly over lunch with him, "Always suffer an old geek." And I've never regretted it. Keep trying to share what you know. He couldn't figure how to teach what he knows either, but really I think mentorship is more about showing and sharing. You'll find someone who appreciates the skill, and you'll be that guy who sets them on track for their career. Also kudos on the name memory; I have been well instructed by every good engineer that clearly mirroring people's name back. I don't, but I see how much that helps (just wish I could memorize labels).
- gooseyard 10y ago
  I wonder often how often cliquishness gets interpreted as agism, but in either case, being an aging white male in the tech business has given me a new perspective on the merits of workplace diversity :)

err4nt 10y ago

sounds like your approach complimented his as much as his complemented yours!

nervousvarun 10y ago

This is fundamentally true and basically is a great anecdotal argument for why we have the concept of a PE. Edit: Context is America and also obviously this isn't a thing in software but is very much the normal way of doing business in classical engineering.

mitchty 10y ago
Where I work now we have PE's in software roles and I'm in America.
marcell 10y ago
What is a PE?
- robotresearcher 10y ago
  Professional Engineer. It's an anointed position from an association of engineers, like an old-time guild. There's a duty to mentor youngsters, and a requirement for youngsters to spend time being mentored before getting PE status themselves.
  - BatFastard 10y ago
    I don't believe the concept of PE extends to software. I know its true for architecture, you need a PE to sign off on big structures. I would LOVE to have it in software.
    - robotresearcher 10y ago
      > I would LOVE to have it in software. Sounds good at first thought. Reliable quality and ethics for software engineers, right? On the other hand, you're inviting a special interest group to restrict the supply of software engineers and dictate university curricula. These professional programs/societies tend to be very conservative (engineers, doctors, lawyers) and have their members' interests possibly before society as a whole. Overall it probably still makes sense for the traditional professions. But as a CS prof watching my engineering academic neighbors struggle with scheduling, staffing and difficulty updating things, I really don't want the external constraints on our academic program. Overall, the community has not yet agreed that professional software engineering is a thing, though there have been several attempts to kick start it.
- GFischer 10y ago
  I hope he clarifies, but I think it stands for Principal Engineer.

vvanders 10y ago

Yup, I worked with some grey-beards in the GPU space and holy shit did they know their stuff, root causes and the like. My experience mirrored yours almost exactly. The best ones are also pretty enthusiastic to share and educate. This group was very much like that and I'm incredibly grateful for all the things I learned.

divbit 10y ago
>root causes Maybe years of tracking down bugs has a payoff

zackmorris 10y ago

I'm on the opposite end of this as I'm pushing 40. It's like speed chess vs chess over snail mail. I tend to see all the way to the end of a problem within moments of hearing about it, already formulating solutions to edge cases 10 steps ahead while others seem to ask almost quaint questions about the first step. They spin very quickly while I don't appear to be doing anything at all, yet I often go completely around a problem. It generally takes me longer to explain how I arrived at the solution than it does to just solve it. But I've been trying to be more communicative, to work in a more communal way so that others can participate and I can count on them. Of course nobody believes me about any of this and I've long given up trying to explain. I just quietly go about my work. It's frustrating though because I have no real leverage, no way to demonstrate my experience other than to just keep plodding odd glacially. I've utterly failed in any kind of management role but at the same time am having a hard time letting go of being a "hands on" dev in the trenches. I just hope that the level playing field of the internet dissolves agism before I'm faced with its ramifications. An added bonus of brain age is being able to remember people's names. I never used to be able to do that, and I never tried to learn. It just happened one day. I guess I care more about people now and it seems like the least I can do is remember their fricken name.

HCIdivision17 10y ago
My friend would always talk about old war stories. And he'd repeat too :) But his son said jokingly over lunch with him, "Always suffer an old geek." And I've never regretted it. Keep trying to share what you know. He couldn't figure how to teach what he knows either, but really I think mentorship is more about showing and sharing. You'll find someone who appreciates the skill, and you'll be that guy who sets them on track for their career. Also kudos on the name memory; I have been well instructed by every good engineer that clearly mirroring people's name back. I don't, but I see how much that helps (just wish I could memorize labels).
gooseyard 10y ago
I wonder often how often cliquishness gets interpreted as agism, but in either case, being an aging white male in the tech business has given me a new perspective on the merits of workplace diversity :)