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I can see a reasonable argument being made for pardoning Snowden for revealing the domestic dragnet programs. But how can he possibly be pardoned for revealing

I can see a reasonable argument being made for pardoning Snowden for revealing the domestic dragnet programs. But how can he possibly be pardoned for revealing the details of our foreign intelligence operations? Spying on foreigners is the raison d'être of intelligence agencies.

Tarq0n 10y ago
Two reasons: 1. The practice of intelligence sharing makes the distinction between spying on one's own citizens and foreign nationals less meaningful. Collaborating with foreign intelligence agencies like five eyes is a convenient way to bypass the outdated legal framework around domestic intelligence gathering. 2. While spying on foreign nationals may be, within a limited perspective legal; performing dragnet collection on the private communications of millions of people may still be unethical and disproportionate to the U.S.'s interest. Not to mention a violation of the human right to privacy of these people.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  #1 is an interesting point, but that's not the extent of what was revealed. For example, Snowden revealed details about our intelligence activities in Germany. #2 is a great point to make to Congress, but I'm sure they've already considered the issue at length. Perhaps it is against US interests to partake in that kind of dragnet activity against foreign civilians, but it is not an individual NSA contractor's job to determine what the American interest is.
peterkelly 10y ago
We are all foreigners - it's a term that only has meaning within the context of a given country. In case you hadn't noticed, those of us who do not not hold US citizenship and do not live in the US have the same inherent rights, and deserve the same protections, as those who do. We are not lesser people than you, and to suggest that it's perfectly ok to treat our privacy as less important than your own is simply arrogant. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the disclosures to the US itself, his actions benefited humanity globally by exposing the evil and corrupt nature of the US intelligence agencies, along with those of the UK, Canada, New Zealand, and my own country, Australia.
- marcoperaza 10y ago
  I'm sympathetic to the sentiment, but it's unworkable in our anarchic system of nation-states, where there is no authority binding states to any system of justice. There is no international court to appeal to for surveillance warrants. There is no international police force that will quash bad behavior. As Thucydides observed: "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." This isn't a statement of how things ought to be, but how they are. Tie your hands at your own peril, for those who gain at your expense might not be so generous.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

Tarq0n 10y ago

Two reasons: 1. The practice of intelligence sharing makes the distinction between spying on one's own citizens and foreign nationals less meaningful. Collaborating with foreign intelligence agencies like five eyes is a convenient way to bypass the outdated legal framework around domestic intelligence gathering. 2. While spying on foreign nationals may be, within a limited perspective legal; performing dragnet collection on the private communications of millions of people may still be unethical and disproportionate to the U.S.'s interest. Not to mention a violation of the human right to privacy of these people.

marcoperaza 10y ago
#1 is an interesting point, but that's not the extent of what was revealed. For example, Snowden revealed details about our intelligence activities in Germany. #2 is a great point to make to Congress, but I'm sure they've already considered the issue at length. Perhaps it is against US interests to partake in that kind of dragnet activity against foreign civilians, but it is not an individual NSA contractor's job to determine what the American interest is.

peterkelly 10y ago

We are all foreigners - it's a term that only has meaning within the context of a given country. In case you hadn't noticed, those of us who do not not hold US citizenship and do not live in the US have the same inherent rights, and deserve the same protections, as those who do. We are not lesser people than you, and to suggest that it's perfectly ok to treat our privacy as less important than your own is simply arrogant. Regardless of the merits or otherwise of the disclosures to the US itself, his actions benefited humanity globally by exposing the evil and corrupt nature of the US intelligence agencies, along with those of the UK, Canada, New Zealand, and my own country, Australia.

marcoperaza 10y ago
I'm sympathetic to the sentiment, but it's unworkable in our anarchic system of nation-states, where there is no authority binding states to any system of justice. There is no international court to appeal to for surveillance warrants. There is no international police force that will quash bad behavior. As Thucydides observed: "Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." This isn't a statement of how things ought to be, but how they are. Tie your hands at your own peril, for those who gain at your expense might not be so generous.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]