4 ms·

Trust me, guys who listen to what women say, respect their opinions, and make some form of effort to show that respect, get laid. Regularly. Male feminists are

Trust me, guys who listen to what women say, respect their opinions, and make some form of effort to show that respect, get laid. Regularly. Male feminists are hard to find, and people like dating people who share their political beliefs.

stcredzero 10y ago
Not what I have seen. Men who are confident, powerful, happy, and successful get laid. In certain places, those in power are left-leaning, and so the confident, powerful, happy, and successful men are espousing left-leaning ideologies to signal their worthiness and virtue. However, if you conduct an experiment and have a hetero identifying but poor, weak, and uncertain man claim that he's a feminist, you'll find that such men are called to question and attacked. You can reverse the polarity on the above and come up with an analogous situation for right-leaning contexts. Ideology is used more often as a bludgeon in our ape-like dominance struggles far more often than it's used as a tool of thought. The way most people use it, most of the time, it might as well be an arm-band or a flag.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  From what I've seen of my communities, I don't generally believe this, but it could be the case in other communities I'm unaware of. Definitely, in the dominant societal structure, if you want to get laid you have to be confident, powerful, and successful. You're not going to go out to a club and get laid unless you meet certain requirements, or are capable of faking meeting them. However, there are subcultures which do tend to turn that on its head. And if you're the sort of person who understands and does some basic research on modern feminist/queer issues vs pretending to respect women to get laid, you're likely to find them. Also, the behaviours of rich, successful male feminists get called into question by feminists all the time. That you don't see this suggests a bubble you're in.
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    Also, the behaviours of rich, successful male feminists get called into question by feminists all the time. Where did I say that I never see this? (Hint, I don't. You projected this onto me.) The thing is, though, that it's usually much harder to have such attacks stick against the powerful. Also, men who are in positions of power in such environs generally know how to navigate them. It's not that powerful men don't get challenged. It's that they weather the challenges, enjoy prestige and power, and get to mate. That you don't see this suggests a bubble you're in. Then go out on a limb and project what that might be. I'll give you a hint: Generally people imagine that I'm on the other end of the political spectrum from them, and they're generally wrong. I've had people vilify me for being a lefty hippy-dippy. I've had people call me a yuppie scum. I've had dozens of contradictory stereotypes ascribed to me. Basically, people like to dislike me because I don't subscribe to their ideology in the groupthink/jingoistic manner that's expected of most people. Instead, I see most such things as apes bludgeoning each other with ideological weapons -- because that's mostly what it is.
    - vertex-four 10y ago
      > The thing is, though, that it's usually much harder to have such attacks stick against the powerful. Sure, I'd agree with that. People with power can more reasonably say "fuck this label, it brings me too much criticism, I'm picking another one". Is the solution not to question anyone for harmful beliefs and actions? Feminists criticise each other as a matter of course - if your goal is to avoid people questioning your behaviour, it's not a label you want. But that's an entirely different thing from being "powerful, confident, and successful".
      - stcredzero 10y ago
        People with power can more reasonably say "fuck this label, it brings me too much criticism, I'm picking another one". Not how they usually spin it. Is the solution not to question anyone for harmful beliefs and actions? The solution is to treat ideas and principles more as ideas and principles and less as emotionally based ideological bludgeons. if your goal is to avoid people questioning your behaviour Where the heck did this guff about this "goal" and labels come from? (I certainly wasn't intending that.) I'm all for questioning. My original observation is the different treatment the powerful get from the not-powerful, even when the questioning is ideological. Especially when the questioning is ideological. You can think of it this way: I'm questioning the self-awareness behind such questioning as practiced, not the notion of questioning itself.

stcredzero 10y ago

Not what I have seen. Men who are confident, powerful, happy, and successful get laid. In certain places, those in power are left-leaning, and so the confident, powerful, happy, and successful men are espousing left-leaning ideologies to signal their worthiness and virtue. However, if you conduct an experiment and have a hetero identifying but poor, weak, and uncertain man claim that he's a feminist, you'll find that such men are called to question and attacked. You can reverse the polarity on the above and come up with an analogous situation for right-leaning contexts. Ideology is used more often as a bludgeon in our ape-like dominance struggles far more often than it's used as a tool of thought. The way most people use it, most of the time, it might as well be an arm-band or a flag.

vertex-four 10y ago
From what I've seen of my communities, I don't generally believe this, but it could be the case in other communities I'm unaware of. Definitely, in the dominant societal structure, if you want to get laid you have to be confident, powerful, and successful. You're not going to go out to a club and get laid unless you meet certain requirements, or are capable of faking meeting them. However, there are subcultures which do tend to turn that on its head. And if you're the sort of person who understands and does some basic research on modern feminist/queer issues vs pretending to respect women to get laid, you're likely to find them. Also, the behaviours of rich, successful male feminists get called into question by feminists all the time. That you don't see this suggests a bubble you're in.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  Also, the behaviours of rich, successful male feminists get called into question by feminists all the time. Where did I say that I never see this? (Hint, I don't. You projected this onto me.) The thing is, though, that it's usually much harder to have such attacks stick against the powerful. Also, men who are in positions of power in such environs generally know how to navigate them. It's not that powerful men don't get challenged. It's that they weather the challenges, enjoy prestige and power, and get to mate. That you don't see this suggests a bubble you're in. Then go out on a limb and project what that might be. I'll give you a hint: Generally people imagine that I'm on the other end of the political spectrum from them, and they're generally wrong. I've had people vilify me for being a lefty hippy-dippy. I've had people call me a yuppie scum. I've had dozens of contradictory stereotypes ascribed to me. Basically, people like to dislike me because I don't subscribe to their ideology in the groupthink/jingoistic manner that's expected of most people. Instead, I see most such things as apes bludgeoning each other with ideological weapons -- because that's mostly what it is.
  - vertex-four 10y ago
    > The thing is, though, that it's usually much harder to have such attacks stick against the powerful. Sure, I'd agree with that. People with power can more reasonably say "fuck this label, it brings me too much criticism, I'm picking another one". Is the solution not to question anyone for harmful beliefs and actions? Feminists criticise each other as a matter of course - if your goal is to avoid people questioning your behaviour, it's not a label you want. But that's an entirely different thing from being "powerful, confident, and successful".
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      People with power can more reasonably say "fuck this label, it brings me too much criticism, I'm picking another one". Not how they usually spin it. Is the solution not to question anyone for harmful beliefs and actions? The solution is to treat ideas and principles more as ideas and principles and less as emotionally based ideological bludgeons. if your goal is to avoid people questioning your behaviour Where the heck did this guff about this "goal" and labels come from? (I certainly wasn't intending that.) I'm all for questioning. My original observation is the different treatment the powerful get from the not-powerful, even when the questioning is ideological. Especially when the questioning is ideological. You can think of it this way: I'm questioning the self-awareness behind such questioning as practiced, not the notion of questioning itself.