9 ms·

Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" in your opinion when referring to a female in a professional environment (assuming that referring to male

by geoka9 10y ago

Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" in your opinion when referring to a female in a professional environment (assuming that referring to males as "guys" is acceptable)?

sanderjd 10y ago
I don't think there is one. One of the results of society being imbalanced for a very long time is that language is also imbalanced. It can be frustrating.
- chrischen 10y ago
  "Gals"
edblarney 10y ago
"Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" --> "I don't think there is one." No - the feminine of 'guy' is 'girl'. Point blank. "The guys/girls are in town this week" "Those guys/girls are from Facebook" This is very common and normal language.
- zepto 10y ago
  They are not equivalent because they have different connotations. These aren't values in an enum, they are socially constructed symbols.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  Girl is a diminutive. Guy is not. When you're familiar with someone it's probably fine to use girl with them. But when you aren't familiar, or are speaking about them to others in a professional sense, it's probably bad form.
  - monksy 10y ago
    On that same note. Girl may be "diminutive" (I don't agree with that), it's not derogatory. (Unless you say a teenage girl for someone who is an adult) Even if used intentionally to putdown your subject, it's not effective. ("You're a girl" .. well yes, the meaning of the word is incredibly flexible and doesn't indicate maturity or explicitly state negative qualities) I don't think women have the equivalent to "boy." Boy is used by women to adult men to degrade the subject. Even though we have two similar words which may belittle the person, we have another case where the womens' version is watered down to belittle less. ----- That being said "dude" is a pretty weird neutral term is odd in use, and formality.
- sanderjd 10y ago
  I see now that you're from Canada. Maybe what you are saying is true there. In the US, it is not true. Women don't like to be called girls, just like men don't like to be called boys. That our forebears didn't deign to create a feminine version of "guy" is no excuse.
  - lusen 10y ago
    For anyone wondering why "girls" is a loaded term, think about how it used to be ok in the US for white people to call adult black men "boy". Would you call your coworker or boss "boy"? No, it would feel terribly terribly wrong, especially if they are black. It would be a gross microaggression and bullying behavior. That's what calling women "girls" is like. It's a pejorative that maintains bias and prevents us from seeing a class of people as active and capable. Men get tied up and abused as prisoners of war and they're heros. Women get tied up and abused by men, they're victims. Women as "girls" is part of this false socially constructed narrative about female "impotence."
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    In a similar vein... I'm Canadian and middle aged. I grew up being totally ok calling myself an "Oriental"... until an American relative told me it was incredibly offensive and that we're now called Asians (this was maybe around 1990). I changed my use of that word mainly in case I encountered other American Asians, but to this day, I'm still not offended by the o-word.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > In the US, it is not true. Women don't like to be called girls, just like men don't like to be called boys. There is rather enormous variation in individuals and, often even for the same individual, context in this, within the US.
- vertex-four 10y ago
  Unfortunately, even where it is common and normal language, "girl" to a woman holds implications that "guy" to a man doesn't. Specifically, that the woman is in a lesser position of power, since they're being referred to as a term that is used for young females, while the men are being referred to using a term which affirms their difference from young males. There's a point in the language that we use where boys with little power become guys with some power, but there isn't a point where girls with little power become [some word we don't really have outside of regional vernacular]. Our language is not perfect (even mine isn't) - the things we say on an everyday basis show all sorts of things we as a society implicitly believe, often without realising it. That our language reflects our society, and vice versa, is a very old idea, and part of modern feminism and the academia which backs it tries to bring that to the forefront.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Here's the thing I don't get: You have been told repeatedly in this thread that referring to women as "girls" is demeaning and treating them like children. This is fact. A normal person, when told that they are calling someone something that they do not want to be called, will say, "Ok, I'll stop, and use the preferred term." You, however, have doubled down on it, even insisting that treating women like children is the preferred nomenclature. Tell me, why do you have such an attachment to that word? Why is it so important to you to refer to women as children?
- wirelessest 10y ago
  Actually, it's gal. Point blank. Not used as often, because the diminutive term passes for an alternative among many.
edblarney 10y ago
"Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" --> "I don't think there is one." No - the feminine of 'guy' is 'girl'. Point blank. "The guys/girls are in town this week" "Those guys/girls are from Facebook" This is very common and normal language.
Jtsummers 10y ago
Goes back to familiarity. I'd be comfortable saying girls to one of the social/professional groups in my office that's all women. But I know them. I wouldn't do that with women I didn't know. Our travel office is all women. I don't call them "the girls in the travel office" because I don't know them (in a familiar way). I use guy a bit more often despite unfamiliarity, but it's not a diminutive like girl is though it is casual.
- slantyyz 10y ago
  Real question - is "ladies" considered offensive these days? Disclaimer: I'm probably older than the average HN'er so I'm used to using woman/lady interchangeably in casual usage, and now I'm wondering how out of date I am.
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    In my experience, I've gotten some flack for "lady" directed at an individual woman, but not for "ladies" directed at a group. The former seems to be a regional and agewise thing, not a universal thing. EDIT: Thought about this on my drive home. I think a lot of this has to do with intonation and context. "Hey, lady!" can be taken many ways depending on how you say it. "Alright lady, let's start this meeting." would be an awkward expression, even if 99.99% of the world takes it as totally inoccuous. Versus "ladies" which is easier to use, as in "Alright ladies, let's get started." without any odd implications by tone or inflection.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
Not the op, but female as well. Guy is a general term most times, but I've known a few women that get offended by it because they aren't male. Dude is also used for both, but a lot of folks don't want to use that in the office. Alternatively, just use person and be safe.
- stcredzero 10y ago
  "Folks"?
  - Jtsummers 10y ago
    That's one I often use. It's truly gender-neutral. "Alright folks, let's get this meeting started." vs "Alright guys, let's get this meeting started."
  - webtechgal 10y ago
    Yes!! :-)
  - Broken_Hippo 10y ago
    That has slipped into my vocabulary. I moved to Norway, and started learning Norwegian. Folk is one of the words for people, and has some other uses too. And it crept into my English vocabulary. I think I sound weird when I use it sometimes, but you are the first to point it out :)
    - stcredzero 10y ago
      I always think of Pete Seeger when I say it.
- monksy 10y ago
  > women that get offended by it because they aren't male. There are a few people who get upset over it or intentionally make a vocial issue out of something that isn't. ("Guys" is generally a genderless term ["You guys, take a look at this!"]
jalfresi 10y ago
Dolls As in Guys and Dolls. Isn't it a 50s american slang thing?
- savanaly 10y ago
  Dunno if you're joking but one wouldn't refer to a group of women that way nowadays. Sort of has negative connotations.
YooLi 10y ago
The equivalent is gal, but not many say gals, unless possibly you are from Texas where I have heard it before in more rural parts.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ljf 10y ago
Women/woman should work just fine. Or if singular/small group you can just use peoples names. Or just 'you' - "would you all all like to come for lunch today?"
e5india 10y ago
The word you're looking for is 'gals' but people stopped using it for some reason.
actsasbuffoon 10y ago
I tend to informally address mixed gender groups as "you guys," and I know that bugs some people. Unfortunately I can't think of any better gender neutral terms that maintain the informal feeling. Sometimes I wish I was southern so I could get away with "y'all." It's such a useful term, but it sounds so wrong coming from my north eastern accent.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Folks. People. Both perfectly fine terms.
  - actsasbuffoon 10y ago
    "Folks" makes me feel like George W. Bush. I can't bring myself to say it. He used the word a lot, frequently in inappropriate contexts. Now the word is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. "Many of the spectacular car bombings and killings you see are as a result of al Qaeda — the very same folks that attacked us on September the 11th." People works in some contexts, but has problems in others. Note the difference: > What are you guys up to? Versus > What are you people up to? The first is fine. The second gets you a visit from HR. EDIT: And to get back to my earlier point, "What are y'all up to?" is friendly and casual. The problem is that I sound as natural as someone's dad trying to rap when I say it.
- mcgrath_sh 10y ago
  You could always go with the Pittsburgh/Western PA equivalent of "yinz." :)
st3v3r 10y ago
Lady.

by geoka9 10y ago

Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" in your opinion when referring to a female in a professional environment (assuming that referring to males as "guys" is acceptable)?

sanderjd 10y ago

I don't think there is one. One of the results of society being imbalanced for a very long time is that language is also imbalanced. It can be frustrating.

chrischen 10y ago
"Gals"

edblarney 10y ago

"Honest question: what would be the equivalent of "guy" --> "I don't think there is one." No - the feminine of 'guy' is 'girl'. Point blank. "The guys/girls are in town this week" "Those guys/girls are from Facebook" This is very common and normal language.

zepto 10y ago
They are not equivalent because they have different connotations. These aren't values in an enum, they are socially constructed symbols.
Jtsummers 10y ago
Girl is a diminutive. Guy is not. When you're familiar with someone it's probably fine to use girl with them. But when you aren't familiar, or are speaking about them to others in a professional sense, it's probably bad form.
- monksy 10y ago
  On that same note. Girl may be "diminutive" (I don't agree with that), it's not derogatory. (Unless you say a teenage girl for someone who is an adult) Even if used intentionally to putdown your subject, it's not effective. ("You're a girl" .. well yes, the meaning of the word is incredibly flexible and doesn't indicate maturity or explicitly state negative qualities) I don't think women have the equivalent to "boy." Boy is used by women to adult men to degrade the subject. Even though we have two similar words which may belittle the person, we have another case where the womens' version is watered down to belittle less. ----- That being said "dude" is a pretty weird neutral term is odd in use, and formality.
sanderjd 10y ago
I see now that you're from Canada. Maybe what you are saying is true there. In the US, it is not true. Women don't like to be called girls, just like men don't like to be called boys. That our forebears didn't deign to create a feminine version of "guy" is no excuse.
- lusen 10y ago
  For anyone wondering why "girls" is a loaded term, think about how it used to be ok in the US for white people to call adult black men "boy". Would you call your coworker or boss "boy"? No, it would feel terribly terribly wrong, especially if they are black. It would be a gross microaggression and bullying behavior. That's what calling women "girls" is like. It's a pejorative that maintains bias and prevents us from seeing a class of people as active and capable. Men get tied up and abused as prisoners of war and they're heros. Women get tied up and abused by men, they're victims. Women as "girls" is part of this false socially constructed narrative about female "impotence."
- slantyyz 10y ago
  In a similar vein... I'm Canadian and middle aged. I grew up being totally ok calling myself an "Oriental"... until an American relative told me it was incredibly offensive and that we're now called Asians (this was maybe around 1990). I changed my use of that word mainly in case I encountered other American Asians, but to this day, I'm still not offended by the o-word.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > In the US, it is not true. Women don't like to be called girls, just like men don't like to be called boys. There is rather enormous variation in individuals and, often even for the same individual, context in this, within the US.
vertex-four 10y ago
Unfortunately, even where it is common and normal language, "girl" to a woman holds implications that "guy" to a man doesn't. Specifically, that the woman is in a lesser position of power, since they're being referred to as a term that is used for young females, while the men are being referred to using a term which affirms their difference from young males. There's a point in the language that we use where boys with little power become guys with some power, but there isn't a point where girls with little power become [some word we don't really have outside of regional vernacular]. Our language is not perfect (even mine isn't) - the things we say on an everyday basis show all sorts of things we as a society implicitly believe, often without realising it. That our language reflects our society, and vice versa, is a very old idea, and part of modern feminism and the academia which backs it tries to bring that to the forefront.
st3v3r 10y ago
Here's the thing I don't get: You have been told repeatedly in this thread that referring to women as "girls" is demeaning and treating them like children. This is fact. A normal person, when told that they are calling someone something that they do not want to be called, will say, "Ok, I'll stop, and use the preferred term." You, however, have doubled down on it, even insisting that treating women like children is the preferred nomenclature. Tell me, why do you have such an attachment to that word? Why is it so important to you to refer to women as children?
wirelessest 10y ago
Actually, it's gal. Point blank. Not used as often, because the diminutive term passes for an alternative among many.

edblarney 10y ago

Jtsummers 10y ago

Goes back to familiarity. I'd be comfortable saying girls to one of the social/professional groups in my office that's all women. But I know them. I wouldn't do that with women I didn't know. Our travel office is all women. I don't call them "the girls in the travel office" because I don't know them (in a familiar way). I use guy a bit more often despite unfamiliarity, but it's not a diminutive like girl is though it is casual.

slantyyz 10y ago
Real question - is "ladies" considered offensive these days? Disclaimer: I'm probably older than the average HN'er so I'm used to using woman/lady interchangeably in casual usage, and now I'm wondering how out of date I am.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  In my experience, I've gotten some flack for "lady" directed at an individual woman, but not for "ladies" directed at a group. The former seems to be a regional and agewise thing, not a universal thing. EDIT: Thought about this on my drive home. I think a lot of this has to do with intonation and context. "Hey, lady!" can be taken many ways depending on how you say it. "Alright lady, let's start this meeting." would be an awkward expression, even if 99.99% of the world takes it as totally inoccuous. Versus "ladies" which is easier to use, as in "Alright ladies, let's get started." without any odd implications by tone or inflection.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

Not the op, but female as well. Guy is a general term most times, but I've known a few women that get offended by it because they aren't male. Dude is also used for both, but a lot of folks don't want to use that in the office. Alternatively, just use person and be safe.

stcredzero 10y ago
"Folks"?
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  That's one I often use. It's truly gender-neutral. "Alright folks, let's get this meeting started." vs "Alright guys, let's get this meeting started."
- webtechgal 10y ago
  Yes!! :-)
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  That has slipped into my vocabulary. I moved to Norway, and started learning Norwegian. Folk is one of the words for people, and has some other uses too. And it crept into my English vocabulary. I think I sound weird when I use it sometimes, but you are the first to point it out :)
  - stcredzero 10y ago
    I always think of Pete Seeger when I say it.
monksy 10y ago
> women that get offended by it because they aren't male. There are a few people who get upset over it or intentionally make a vocial issue out of something that isn't. ("Guys" is generally a genderless term ["You guys, take a look at this!"]

jalfresi 10y ago

Dolls As in Guys and Dolls. Isn't it a 50s american slang thing?

savanaly 10y ago
Dunno if you're joking but one wouldn't refer to a group of women that way nowadays. Sort of has negative connotations.

YooLi 10y ago

The equivalent is gal, but not many say gals, unless possibly you are from Texas where I have heard it before in more rural parts.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ljf 10y ago

Women/woman should work just fine. Or if singular/small group you can just use peoples names. Or just 'you' - "would you all all like to come for lunch today?"

e5india 10y ago

The word you're looking for is 'gals' but people stopped using it for some reason.

actsasbuffoon 10y ago

I tend to informally address mixed gender groups as "you guys," and I know that bugs some people. Unfortunately I can't think of any better gender neutral terms that maintain the informal feeling. Sometimes I wish I was southern so I could get away with "y'all." It's such a useful term, but it sounds so wrong coming from my north eastern accent.

st3v3r 10y ago
Folks. People. Both perfectly fine terms.
- actsasbuffoon 10y ago
  "Folks" makes me feel like George W. Bush. I can't bring myself to say it. He used the word a lot, frequently in inappropriate contexts. Now the word is like fingernails on a chalkboard for me. "Many of the spectacular car bombings and killings you see are as a result of al Qaeda — the very same folks that attacked us on September the 11th." People works in some contexts, but has problems in others. Note the difference: > What are you guys up to? Versus > What are you people up to? The first is fine. The second gets you a visit from HR. EDIT: And to get back to my earlier point, "What are y'all up to?" is friendly and casual. The problem is that I sound as natural as someone's dad trying to rap when I say it.
mcgrath_sh 10y ago
You could always go with the Pittsburgh/Western PA equivalent of "yinz." :)

st3v3r 10y ago

Lady.