5 ms·

> its also miles per gallon. So drivers can get feedback on usage rates versus total capacity. I don't know anyone who actually adjusts their driving to try to

by dpark 10y ago

> its also miles per gallon. So drivers can get feedback on usage rates versus total capacity. I don't know anyone who actually adjusts their driving to try to push the mpg metric up. I'm sure there is some tiny subset of the population that does this but in general this isn't actually a useful number except to make people annoyed that they aren't getting the EPA estimated fuel efficiency. Car manufacturers don't provide this because it's actually useful. They provide it because it's easy and people like bells and whistles. > if I took a random point on a map and said find something 25 miles away, with no scale, most people couldn't do it. I don't think this is a particularly meaningful observation since maps have scales precisely because it's basically impossible to know the distance between two points without a scale. This isn't a function of not intuitively grasping what a mile it. It's a function of maps being scaled. Even if you have an amazing grasp on distances it won't directly translate to the map.

chadgeidel 10y ago
raises hand I'm not a hardcore hypermiler, but just doing little tricks (minimizing throttle/braking, "reading" traffic, maintaining an appropriate speed/distance relative to other cars, etc) makes quite a bit of difference in the commute. I have a small (tiny?) turbocharged car and can get 40-42 mpg on my commute between Denver and Boulder.
- Declanomous 10y ago
  I get ~18 MPG in my Impreza, and even though my fuel mileage sucks I still take steps to improve my fuel mileage. Just because my commute is short and I'm flooring the car down the on-ramp to the highway doesn't mean I don't want to take steps to improve my mileage within the boundaries of how I want to drive my car. For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? In the same sense, I'd like to know how my computer usage is affecting my battery life. Do the extra tabs I have open in chrome matter, or should I bookmark them and close them until I need them? Just because I value one thing over another, doesn't mean the less valued option doesn't come in to play when making a decision.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? It doesn't really matter because your gas mileage is likely dominated by things like flooring it down on-ramps. But 3rd is more efficient in the case you describe.
    - Declanomous 10y ago
      I know my gas mileage is dominated by flooring it down on ramps, but my mileage is still affected by a lot of other factors. I track basically everything I do with my car, along with mileage, and small things make a surprising difference. I can detect a change in my fuel consumption based on what tires I have on my car, how old my oil is, whether my roof rack is on my car, and whether I have my bike mount on my rack. Those effects are noticeable on my normal commute, where I travel 8 miles and spend most of the time going less than 30 mph, where aerodynamics doesn't matter that much. When I take a road trip (and thus don't have to perform any suicide merges), the difference any of these things makes is quite substantial. My summer tires are each about an inch wider than the tires I have mounted on my old rims, and switching to the narrower tires makes more of a difference in mileage than taking off the roof rack. With the narrow tires and no roof rack, I can get about 36 miles per gallon at 55 mph, and with my winter tires and my roof rack on my car I can't even approach 30 MPG. For a tech-related example: I prefer to use my phone with the backlight turned all the way up, even though it uses an additional 15% of every full charge, but I uninstalled the Facebook app because it used 3% of every battery just running in the background. I'm just trying to be efficient in my own way, I'm not competing on efficiency.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    Turbo or non-turbo Impreza? I had a WRX (turbo) for nearly 10 years and I don't think I ever got below 25. I'm surprised at 18 - I would consider that really low. I don't know your scenario, but I would guess that you could do much better than that with just a few changes. I've never had to floor it on an on-ramp, but I haven't driven everywhere in the US.
    - 10y ago
- dpark 10y ago
  Does the MPG indicator actually enable anything? You can do all the things you describe without it. It's hard for me to believe that there's anyone independently discovering from their car's MPG indicator that minimizing throttle/brake usage improves mileage.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    MPG indicator gives real-time feedback about what I'm doing. I could do everything without it (and did in the past) but "calculating efficiency by doing math at fill time" isn't granular enough. I don't think I could get that extra 2 or 3 MPG.
    - dpark 10y ago
      shrug None of the things you mention require constant feedback to understand. Heavy throttle followed by braking is just turning gasoline into brake wear. You know that already.
adrianN 10y ago
In Germany, demonstrating that you drive in a way that conserves fuel is part of the driving test. E.g. if you fail to shift to a higher gear when appropriate or shift down to brake that can be part of the reason you fail the test.
- switch007 10y ago
  The modern Bluemotion Golfs I have driven seem to want you to drive in 6th at 30mph. This combination also results in an annoying drone coming from the engine which I can't stand. You can't accelerate in that gear. Also, I don't take instructions from an arrow on a dashboard telling me what gear to be in. That's my judgement to make based on road and traffic conditions. The "shift up" recommendations to me seem like an attempt to replicate the ideal conditions under which the official efficiency tests are done - and we all know about /those/ figures...
  - adrianN 10y ago
    Well, you're supposed to shift down before accelerating.
    - dpark 10y ago
      6th to 2nd is a heck of a downshift. It's hard for me to imagine driving around at 30 in 6th, too. The engine drone would be pretty obnoxious.
      - ptaipale 10y ago
        30 mph (almost 50 km/h) usually works very well on 4th in a 6-gear box, including accelerating, especially TSI engines which have a superb torque already on very low RPMs.
- dpark 10y ago
  This in no way indicates the usefulness of the MPG indicator that most cars have. You can drive efficiently (or inefficiently) without it.
kbutler 10y ago
A large percentage of the population uses cruise control, probably without realizing that it's the single easiest thing you can do to increase your (freeway) mpg. It's also apparently pretty common for hybrid-car drivers to adjust driving patterns to improve mpg, partly because the car gives rapid feedback - gamification in real life! - but there's probably also some selection bias, as people who buy high-mpg vehicles are more likely to be concerned about fuel efficiency.

by dpark 10y ago

chadgeidel 10y ago

raises hand I'm not a hardcore hypermiler, but just doing little tricks (minimizing throttle/braking, "reading" traffic, maintaining an appropriate speed/distance relative to other cars, etc) makes quite a bit of difference in the commute. I have a small (tiny?) turbocharged car and can get 40-42 mpg on my commute between Denver and Boulder.

Declanomous 10y ago
I get ~18 MPG in my Impreza, and even though my fuel mileage sucks I still take steps to improve my fuel mileage. Just because my commute is short and I'm flooring the car down the on-ramp to the highway doesn't mean I don't want to take steps to improve my mileage within the boundaries of how I want to drive my car. For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? In the same sense, I'd like to know how my computer usage is affecting my battery life. Do the extra tabs I have open in chrome matter, or should I bookmark them and close them until I need them? Just because I value one thing over another, doesn't mean the less valued option doesn't come in to play when making a decision.
- dpark 10y ago
  > For instance, is it better to be in second or third gear when in slow but flowing traffic? It doesn't really matter because your gas mileage is likely dominated by things like flooring it down on-ramps. But 3rd is more efficient in the case you describe.
  - Declanomous 10y ago
    I know my gas mileage is dominated by flooring it down on ramps, but my mileage is still affected by a lot of other factors. I track basically everything I do with my car, along with mileage, and small things make a surprising difference. I can detect a change in my fuel consumption based on what tires I have on my car, how old my oil is, whether my roof rack is on my car, and whether I have my bike mount on my rack. Those effects are noticeable on my normal commute, where I travel 8 miles and spend most of the time going less than 30 mph, where aerodynamics doesn't matter that much. When I take a road trip (and thus don't have to perform any suicide merges), the difference any of these things makes is quite substantial. My summer tires are each about an inch wider than the tires I have mounted on my old rims, and switching to the narrower tires makes more of a difference in mileage than taking off the roof rack. With the narrow tires and no roof rack, I can get about 36 miles per gallon at 55 mph, and with my winter tires and my roof rack on my car I can't even approach 30 MPG. For a tech-related example: I prefer to use my phone with the backlight turned all the way up, even though it uses an additional 15% of every full charge, but I uninstalled the Facebook app because it used 3% of every battery just running in the background. I'm just trying to be efficient in my own way, I'm not competing on efficiency.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  Turbo or non-turbo Impreza? I had a WRX (turbo) for nearly 10 years and I don't think I ever got below 25. I'm surprised at 18 - I would consider that really low. I don't know your scenario, but I would guess that you could do much better than that with just a few changes. I've never had to floor it on an on-ramp, but I haven't driven everywhere in the US.
  - 10y ago
dpark 10y ago
Does the MPG indicator actually enable anything? You can do all the things you describe without it. It's hard for me to believe that there's anyone independently discovering from their car's MPG indicator that minimizing throttle/brake usage improves mileage.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  MPG indicator gives real-time feedback about what I'm doing. I could do everything without it (and did in the past) but "calculating efficiency by doing math at fill time" isn't granular enough. I don't think I could get that extra 2 or 3 MPG.
  - dpark 10y ago
    shrug None of the things you mention require constant feedback to understand. Heavy throttle followed by braking is just turning gasoline into brake wear. You know that already.

adrianN 10y ago

In Germany, demonstrating that you drive in a way that conserves fuel is part of the driving test. E.g. if you fail to shift to a higher gear when appropriate or shift down to brake that can be part of the reason you fail the test.

switch007 10y ago
The modern Bluemotion Golfs I have driven seem to want you to drive in 6th at 30mph. This combination also results in an annoying drone coming from the engine which I can't stand. You can't accelerate in that gear. Also, I don't take instructions from an arrow on a dashboard telling me what gear to be in. That's my judgement to make based on road and traffic conditions. The "shift up" recommendations to me seem like an attempt to replicate the ideal conditions under which the official efficiency tests are done - and we all know about /those/ figures...
- adrianN 10y ago
  Well, you're supposed to shift down before accelerating.
  - dpark 10y ago
    6th to 2nd is a heck of a downshift. It's hard for me to imagine driving around at 30 in 6th, too. The engine drone would be pretty obnoxious.
    - ptaipale 10y ago
      30 mph (almost 50 km/h) usually works very well on 4th in a 6-gear box, including accelerating, especially TSI engines which have a superb torque already on very low RPMs.
dpark 10y ago
This in no way indicates the usefulness of the MPG indicator that most cars have. You can drive efficiently (or inefficiently) without it.

kbutler 10y ago

A large percentage of the population uses cruise control, probably without realizing that it's the single easiest thing you can do to increase your (freeway) mpg. It's also apparently pretty common for hybrid-car drivers to adjust driving patterns to improve mpg, partly because the car gives rapid feedback - gamification in real life! - but there's probably also some selection bias, as people who buy high-mpg vehicles are more likely to be concerned about fuel efficiency.