4 ms·

Except that this law makes the union pointless. Laws like that are a prime reason unions are dying. Why pay union dues when you get all the benefits for free?

Except that this law makes the union pointless. Laws like that are a prime reason unions are dying. Why pay union dues when you get all the benefits for free? Oh sure, the union shrivels and dies and the benefits leave with it, but fuck it you saved $25 off a few paychecks.

coredog64 10y ago
When I worked at Boeing, membership in SPEEA was optional. They offered benefits to paying members, but the benefits I received as a "free rider" were pretty minimal.
- lmm 10y ago
  The real benefits will be things like a decent contract with e.g. proper treatment of overtime, sensible safety policies and so on. Which you absolutely get to free-ride on.
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    There is no reason Boeing can't offer a non-decent contract without overtime or safety to non-union workers. This is like saying Joe 401k is free-riding on Goldman Sachs because Goldman tries to find the right price while Joe 401k just takes whatever price is available.
    - lmm 10y ago
      There are economists who seriously criticise the rise of index funds on exactly those grounds.
RHSeeger 10y ago
On the other hand, you also get all the negatives while losing many of the benefits. Unions have some positives and some negatives. Some of the positives you benefit from even if you're not in it, some you don't. Some of the negatives you are impacted by if you're not in it, some you don't. It's not a clear case of "getting a big bucket of benefits without paying the cost" if you work for a company w/o joining the union.
pc86 10y ago
Yes because why would we want someone to be able to choose whether or not they want to give part of their paycheck to a third party?
tomjen3 10y ago
I am pretty sure if I don't pay dues the union will tell me to go take a hike if I come to them with a problem. Or at least they will require me to join. And I will probably still be subject to retarded contract where advancement is by seniority, no benefit for doing a great job and it is basically impossible to fire people.

coredog64 10y ago

When I worked at Boeing, membership in SPEEA was optional. They offered benefits to paying members, but the benefits I received as a "free rider" were pretty minimal.

lmm 10y ago
The real benefits will be things like a decent contract with e.g. proper treatment of overtime, sensible safety policies and so on. Which you absolutely get to free-ride on.
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  There is no reason Boeing can't offer a non-decent contract without overtime or safety to non-union workers. This is like saying Joe 401k is free-riding on Goldman Sachs because Goldman tries to find the right price while Joe 401k just takes whatever price is available.
  - lmm 10y ago
    There are economists who seriously criticise the rise of index funds on exactly those grounds.

RHSeeger 10y ago

On the other hand, you also get all the negatives while losing many of the benefits. Unions have some positives and some negatives. Some of the positives you benefit from even if you're not in it, some you don't. Some of the negatives you are impacted by if you're not in it, some you don't. It's not a clear case of "getting a big bucket of benefits without paying the cost" if you work for a company w/o joining the union.

pc86 10y ago

Yes because why would we want someone to be able to choose whether or not they want to give part of their paycheck to a third party?

tomjen3 10y ago

I am pretty sure if I don't pay dues the union will tell me to go take a hike if I come to them with a problem. Or at least they will require me to join. And I will probably still be subject to retarded contract where advancement is by seniority, no benefit for doing a great job and it is basically impossible to fire people.