4 ms·

I'm not seeing a shred of racism there. I'm seeing a white, straight male not being treated like he's special, and interpreting that as racism.

by st3v3r 10y ago

OJFord 10y ago
> I'm not seeing a shred of racism there. How about: > it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging, > Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women > This is not work for white folks to lead I think maybe you read only the comment, and not the article it was commenting on: http://uk.businessinsider.com/github-the-full-inside-story-2016-2 http://uk.businessinsider.com/github-the-full-inside-story-2...
gpm 10y ago
Read the article linked, some key quotes > "it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging" - anonymous insider, presumably someone in a position to interview people > "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - Lead of social impact team > "This is not work for white folks to lead." - Slide in talk given by above lead > "We need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" - Same slide (This one is especially odd, Asian's are over-represented in tech as a percentage of the population) > "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - Same slide > "don't think we'll succeed teaching white, male middle managers empathy and compassion any time soon [new paragraph] so let's limit their scope of damage" - Social impact team technical director via twitter
- st3v3r 10y ago
  Not seeing racism. Again, just seeing white men not treated as the default standard, and white people here seeing that as racism.
  - cyphar 10y ago
    Here's an easy test to see if such statements are racist. Swap "white" for any other race. If it sounds like racism, then the original statement is by necessity also racist.
    - jkelsey 10y ago
      Your test completely ignores historical context.
      - flukus 10y ago
        So does the definition of racism.
    - gizmo 10y ago
      That's a terrible test, really. It presumes that all races/ethnicities are treated equally by society, when they fact they aren't. A test like that only works when you swap like for like, and you don't. For instance, many ethnic jokes (racist jokes) only work because they exploit racial stereotypes. Those jokes cease to work when you swap in a different race. Does that mean the original jokes were not racist? Of course it doesn't. Saying "there are too many white guys in the senate" is not racist, because the US senate is disproportionately white. Saying "there are too many black guys in the senate" on the other hand is racist, because there are only 2 of them! Saying "there are too many white guys in tech" isn't racist for the same reason, and actions to diversify tech are not racist against white people either. Conversely, preserving the white-dominated status quo is racist.
      - cyphar 10y ago
        > A test like that only works when you swap like for like, and you don't. Maybe I'm odd for thinking that black people and white people should be treated equally. But sure, let's pretend that racism is only possible to be inflicted on minorities. > Saying "there are too many black guys in the senate" on the other hand is racist No. It would be racist to say "there are too many black guys in the senate -- let's get rid of all of them!". The same applies if you say the same for white people. > and actions to diversify tech are not racist against white people either. I support diversity. But hiring only one group of people is NOT DIVERSITY. It's the _precise opposite_. Historical context or no, by definition you cannot claim that you're making a workplace more diverse if you're only making a decision to systematically hire only one group of people (even if they are the minority, because after X years they will become a majority).

I'm not seeing a shred of racism there. I'm seeing a white, straight male not being treated like he's special, and interpreting that as racism.

by st3v3r 10y ago

I'm not seeing a shred of racism there. I'm seeing a white, straight male not being treated like he's special, and interpreting that as racism.

OJFord 10y ago

> I'm not seeing a shred of racism there. How about: > it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging, > Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women > This is not work for white folks to lead I think maybe you read only the comment, and not the article it was commenting on: http://uk.businessinsider.com/github-the-full-inside-story-2016-2 http://uk.businessinsider.com/github-the-full-inside-story-2...

gpm 10y ago

Read the article linked, some key quotes > "it is very hard to even interview people who are 'white' which makes things challenging" - anonymous insider, presumably someone in a position to interview people > "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - Lead of social impact team > "This is not work for white folks to lead." - Slide in talk given by above lead > "We need solidarity with our Asian friends and colleagues" - Same slide (This one is especially odd, Asian's are over-represented in tech as a percentage of the population) > "Some of the biggest barriers to progress are white women" - Same slide > "don't think we'll succeed teaching white, male middle managers empathy and compassion any time soon [new paragraph] so let's limit their scope of damage" - Social impact team technical director via twitter

st3v3r 10y ago
Not seeing racism. Again, just seeing white men not treated as the default standard, and white people here seeing that as racism.
- cyphar 10y ago
  Here's an easy test to see if such statements are racist. Swap "white" for any other race. If it sounds like racism, then the original statement is by necessity also racist.
  - jkelsey 10y ago
    Your test completely ignores historical context.
    - flukus 10y ago
      So does the definition of racism.
  - gizmo 10y ago
    That's a terrible test, really. It presumes that all races/ethnicities are treated equally by society, when they fact they aren't. A test like that only works when you swap like for like, and you don't. For instance, many ethnic jokes (racist jokes) only work because they exploit racial stereotypes. Those jokes cease to work when you swap in a different race. Does that mean the original jokes were not racist? Of course it doesn't. Saying "there are too many white guys in the senate" is not racist, because the US senate is disproportionately white. Saying "there are too many black guys in the senate" on the other hand is racist, because there are only 2 of them! Saying "there are too many white guys in tech" isn't racist for the same reason, and actions to diversify tech are not racist against white people either. Conversely, preserving the white-dominated status quo is racist.
    - cyphar 10y ago
      > A test like that only works when you swap like for like, and you don't. Maybe I'm odd for thinking that black people and white people should be treated equally. But sure, let's pretend that racism is only possible to be inflicted on minorities. > Saying "there are too many black guys in the senate" on the other hand is racist No. It would be racist to say "there are too many black guys in the senate -- let's get rid of all of them!". The same applies if you say the same for white people. > and actions to diversify tech are not racist against white people either. I support diversity. But hiring only one group of people is NOT DIVERSITY. It's the _precise opposite_. Historical context or no, by definition you cannot claim that you're making a workplace more diverse if you're only making a decision to systematically hire only one group of people (even if they are the minority, because after X years they will become a majority).