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Before I reached the last sentence, I looked hard at the image and opened it in a new tab, thinking I could read his writing (since I learned high-intermediate

Before I reached the last sentence, I looked hard at the image and opened it in a new tab, thinking I could read his writing (since I learned high-intermediate Italian). Nope, it's mirrored [1], which may have had to do with his dyslexia. Looking into it briefly, I came across a guy [2] who taught himself to write like Da Vinci (note: full-screen sign-up prompt upon clicking). Skip to to the 6th paragraph starting with "Perhaps...". Being a lefty, I think I'll give mirrored writing a go as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_writing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_writing http://michaelbalchan.com/davinciwriting/?hvid=3xsKQB http://michaelbalchan.com/davinciwriting/?hvid=3xsKQB Edit: from the Wikipedia link above: "Research suggests that the ability to do mirror writing is probably inherited and caused by atypical language organization in the brain. It is not known how many people in the population inherit the ability of mirror writing (an informal Australian newspaper experiment identified 10 true mirror-writers in a readership of 65,000). Half of the children of people with the ability inherit it. A higher proportion of left-handed people are better mirror writers than right-handed people, probably because it's more natural for a left-hander to write backwards."

justifier 10y ago
mirror writing is actually easier to start doing with whatever hand you write with less often; i'd argue due to having less muscle memory to have to subvert mirror writing is only mirrored from a social standpoint all writing is just random lines we ascribe context to leonardo was a visual artist abstracting symbols from strokes is a part of the discipline and like finding your line while participating in a visual medium mirror writing is best developed through doing
- vlad 10y ago
  See my post for the real reason why. You must be right-handed based on your first sentence.
- jacobolus 10y ago
  > due to having less muscle memory to have to subvert Actually better than that: you can more directly transfer skill from one hand to the other if you’re making exactly mirrored motions. This is why I think e.g. keyboard instruments should mirror the order of notes between the left and right hand parts. Then you can get away with learning one uniform set of finger motions, instead of two.
  - mietek 10y ago
    > This is why I think e.g. keyboard instruments should mirror the order of notes between the left and right hand parts. Then you can get away with learning one uniform set of finger motions, instead of two. Funny. I’m currently learning piano and I thought the same thing. I’m considering writing a small MIDI tool to mirror the order of notes, either for half of one keyboard, or for one whole keyboard next to another. Have you tried anything like this yet? EDIT: Apparently it’s been done at least once before, as a physical instrument: http://www.mim.be/double-piano-with-mirrored-keyboards-by-les-freres-mangeot http://www.mim.be/double-piano-with-mirrored-keyboards-by-le...
Shengbo 10y ago
I don't know whether it has anything to do with being left-handed, but I used to mirror-write notes whenever I was bored in class and didn't find it difficult with the exception of letters that required me to lift the pen off the paper and that went away with some practice.
therealjohn 10y ago
I assume you mirrored it back?
hyperpallium 10y ago
Mirror writing enables lefties to not smudge the ink (no ballpoint pens back then).
- emdashcomma 10y ago
  I don't remember much of the Arabic I learned, but I mastered the script because I found writing English-in-Arabic-script so much easier as a lefty that I wrote a lot of my notes that way.
  - noufalibrahim 10y ago
    This comes up when I practice calligraphy as well. I'm right handed and if I'm doing an LTR script (like English), I can manage fairly well without a guard sheet but if I'm doing something like Arabic, I need to be way more careful since my hand will be on top the fresh letters I write. That, apart from the lack of good instructional material, is probably why I moved away from Arabic calligraphy although I really love the form of it.
    - ruricolist 10y ago
      Medieval Arabic scribes would turn the paper on its side and write from top to bottom to avoid exactly this problem. It's why Arabic numerals are sideways compared to European "Arabic" numerals.
- GuiA 10y ago
  I'm left handed, and was educated in a country where using a fountain pen is required until middle school (at least it was when I was growing up). Every time there was a smudge on a piece of work, my 2nd grade teacher would tear it apart and make me do it all over again. I usually finished way before the other kids anyways, and even doing that I was still usually done before the others. I can write really neatly now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  - pjc50 10y ago
    How did you achieve that? I ended up writing "overhand" (mirrored in the plane of the nib from the right-hand method), so the edge of my hand was always on top of the work. I ended up using blotter paper to avoid resting directly on the already-written ink. > Every time there was a smudge on a piece of work, my 2nd grade teacher would tear it apart and make me do it all over again Ah, the brutal conformism of education :(
spiderfarmer 10y ago
My son is a lefty and while learning to write he would write several words mirrored and mix them with normal writing. When asked he really couldn't see the difference. It all looked fine to him.
vlad 10y ago
I did my Engineering Physics I homework using mirrored writing. The instructor didn't mind. Looking back, it's a bit risky given you're drawing equations and arrows, not only text. I hadn't tried this before or since. At the end of the semester, I told him physics seemed fun but I thought software engineering was a better career choice for me. Only years later did I find via LinkedIn that he had worked as a software engineer for ten years before. :D "probably because it's more natural for a left-hander to write backwards". No, the key is that pulling the writing instrument requires a lot less muscle than pushing it. This means that mirror writing requires 1) more muscle strain or 2) less muscle strain than writing with the dominant hand if either the hand is switched, or the direction (LTR or RTL). If you swap both factors at the same time, then the strain is the same. Left-handers who write LTR and switch direction (RTL) reduce the muscle strain compared to their usual writing as they're now pulling the pen. A right hander who does the same in this situation has to push the pen RTL with their right hand, which is harder than they're used to. A right hander should use the left-hand for mirror writing so they pull the pen like they're used to. From this information, you can derive why people think it's easier to mirror write by switching hands, and others think it's easier for left-handers than right-handers to mirror write with their original hand. TL;DR: Yes, there is initial effort to start mirror writing. But the real difference is that in the long-term, one group will find mirror writing to cause more hand strain than normal, and others will find it less hand strain than normal, because in one group pushing the pen is normal and in the other pulling it is.
- alfanick 10y ago
  You've actualy inspired me to try mirror writing - I am left-handed (though I can write smht with my right hand), well I found it easy, intuitive and natural. With a bit of practive I guess I could write in mirror-mode every time, cool!
- dwe3000 10y ago
  I tried mirror writing when I was young because my mom could do it. The muscle strain was the reason I didn't keep up with it (right handed). That, and having to think more when trying to read it ;-)
vidarh 10y ago
Huh, I've know about Da Vinci's mirror writing since I was a kid, and I've tried it and never thought about it as something that might be hard for anyone. I just tried two sentences and the first one was hard - I kept wanting to do the shapes "the right way", but the second one was pretty speedy. I wouldn't say it was very readable, but then again my normal writing isn't either. I'm left handed, though.
aduffy 10y ago
HN: come for the links, stay for the 20+ replies about the benefits of mirror writing.

justifier 10y ago

mirror writing is actually easier to start doing with whatever hand you write with less often; i'd argue due to having less muscle memory to have to subvert mirror writing is only mirrored from a social standpoint all writing is just random lines we ascribe context to leonardo was a visual artist abstracting symbols from strokes is a part of the discipline and like finding your line while participating in a visual medium mirror writing is best developed through doing

vlad 10y ago
See my post for the real reason why. You must be right-handed based on your first sentence.
jacobolus 10y ago
> due to having less muscle memory to have to subvert Actually better than that: you can more directly transfer skill from one hand to the other if you’re making exactly mirrored motions. This is why I think e.g. keyboard instruments should mirror the order of notes between the left and right hand parts. Then you can get away with learning one uniform set of finger motions, instead of two.
- mietek 10y ago
  > This is why I think e.g. keyboard instruments should mirror the order of notes between the left and right hand parts. Then you can get away with learning one uniform set of finger motions, instead of two. Funny. I’m currently learning piano and I thought the same thing. I’m considering writing a small MIDI tool to mirror the order of notes, either for half of one keyboard, or for one whole keyboard next to another. Have you tried anything like this yet? EDIT: Apparently it’s been done at least once before, as a physical instrument: http://www.mim.be/double-piano-with-mirrored-keyboards-by-les-freres-mangeot http://www.mim.be/double-piano-with-mirrored-keyboards-by-le...

Shengbo 10y ago

I don't know whether it has anything to do with being left-handed, but I used to mirror-write notes whenever I was bored in class and didn't find it difficult with the exception of letters that required me to lift the pen off the paper and that went away with some practice.

therealjohn 10y ago

I assume you mirrored it back?

hyperpallium 10y ago

Mirror writing enables lefties to not smudge the ink (no ballpoint pens back then).

emdashcomma 10y ago
I don't remember much of the Arabic I learned, but I mastered the script because I found writing English-in-Arabic-script so much easier as a lefty that I wrote a lot of my notes that way.
- noufalibrahim 10y ago
  This comes up when I practice calligraphy as well. I'm right handed and if I'm doing an LTR script (like English), I can manage fairly well without a guard sheet but if I'm doing something like Arabic, I need to be way more careful since my hand will be on top the fresh letters I write. That, apart from the lack of good instructional material, is probably why I moved away from Arabic calligraphy although I really love the form of it.
  - ruricolist 10y ago
    Medieval Arabic scribes would turn the paper on its side and write from top to bottom to avoid exactly this problem. It's why Arabic numerals are sideways compared to European "Arabic" numerals.
GuiA 10y ago
I'm left handed, and was educated in a country where using a fountain pen is required until middle school (at least it was when I was growing up). Every time there was a smudge on a piece of work, my 2nd grade teacher would tear it apart and make me do it all over again. I usually finished way before the other kids anyways, and even doing that I was still usually done before the others. I can write really neatly now ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- pjc50 10y ago
  How did you achieve that? I ended up writing "overhand" (mirrored in the plane of the nib from the right-hand method), so the edge of my hand was always on top of the work. I ended up using blotter paper to avoid resting directly on the already-written ink. > Every time there was a smudge on a piece of work, my 2nd grade teacher would tear it apart and make me do it all over again Ah, the brutal conformism of education :(

spiderfarmer 10y ago

My son is a lefty and while learning to write he would write several words mirrored and mix them with normal writing. When asked he really couldn't see the difference. It all looked fine to him.

vlad 10y ago

I did my Engineering Physics I homework using mirrored writing. The instructor didn't mind. Looking back, it's a bit risky given you're drawing equations and arrows, not only text. I hadn't tried this before or since. At the end of the semester, I told him physics seemed fun but I thought software engineering was a better career choice for me. Only years later did I find via LinkedIn that he had worked as a software engineer for ten years before. :D "probably because it's more natural for a left-hander to write backwards". No, the key is that pulling the writing instrument requires a lot less muscle than pushing it. This means that mirror writing requires 1) more muscle strain or 2) less muscle strain than writing with the dominant hand if either the hand is switched, or the direction (LTR or RTL). If you swap both factors at the same time, then the strain is the same. Left-handers who write LTR and switch direction (RTL) reduce the muscle strain compared to their usual writing as they're now pulling the pen. A right hander who does the same in this situation has to push the pen RTL with their right hand, which is harder than they're used to. A right hander should use the left-hand for mirror writing so they pull the pen like they're used to. From this information, you can derive why people think it's easier to mirror write by switching hands, and others think it's easier for left-handers than right-handers to mirror write with their original hand. TL;DR: Yes, there is initial effort to start mirror writing. But the real difference is that in the long-term, one group will find mirror writing to cause more hand strain than normal, and others will find it less hand strain than normal, because in one group pushing the pen is normal and in the other pulling it is.

alfanick 10y ago
You've actualy inspired me to try mirror writing - I am left-handed (though I can write smht with my right hand), well I found it easy, intuitive and natural. With a bit of practive I guess I could write in mirror-mode every time, cool!
dwe3000 10y ago
I tried mirror writing when I was young because my mom could do it. The muscle strain was the reason I didn't keep up with it (right handed). That, and having to think more when trying to read it ;-)

vidarh 10y ago

Huh, I've know about Da Vinci's mirror writing since I was a kid, and I've tried it and never thought about it as something that might be hard for anyone. I just tried two sentences and the first one was hard - I kept wanting to do the shapes "the right way", but the second one was pretty speedy. I wouldn't say it was very readable, but then again my normal writing isn't either. I'm left handed, though.

aduffy 10y ago

HN: come for the links, stay for the 20+ replies about the benefits of mirror writing.