5 ms·

Because there are millions of people in the industry.. Without factoring in any exact data, I'd say it's no less than 20% of those millions voted for Trump and

by zodPod 10y ago

Because there are millions of people in the industry.. Without factoring in any exact data, I'd say it's no less than 20% of those millions voted for Trump and of those I'd be willing to bet a portion would support this initiative. It's "merely a gesture" because it doesn't mean shit and it won't prevent anything. I do agree with the guy above that said that it'll start a conversation but I wouldn't be surprised if that didn't change anything anyway.

ryandrake 10y ago
All it takes is a tiny team of people who "need that job".
- tptacek 10y ago
  No, you're misunderstanding the concept of the pledge. Most of the people who signed the pledge at (for instance) Google[1] are never going to be anywhere near the actual creation of misuse of databases for deportation or religious discrimination. The pledge isn't about denying labor for the actual project. What it's about is radically altering the cost to companies of having anyone comply. It doesn't matter than you can find 5 random people who need some extra cash to do the scut work of actually abusing the database. When it gets out --- and it will get out --- the company loses team members. If enough people sign this, the market pressure they're exerting becomes significant, and must influence decision making. [1]: by the way, more people from Google signed the pledge than from any other company, and hey Facebook there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to lap them.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    OK, so what you're saying is it boils down to math: N = Number of employees signing the pledge, Q is probability that an employee will quit their otherwise fantastic $300K/yr^ job because someone ELSE at the company is working on MuslimDB, C = average cost to replace and retrain an engineer, P = expected profit from project. If NQC < P, do the project. Makes sense. I suppose whether it has an effect, then, depends on how many people sign it AND are actually willing to go through with it. ^(the salary commonly quoted on HN about how much the usual Googler makes)
    - tptacek 10y ago
      I wonder how many more people I could to sign this with a d3.js with sliders.
    - pvg 10y ago
      Adding a pre-pledge that commits you to not turning every moral question into a variant of the Drake equation would probably improve the onboarding experience and drive conversion.

by zodPod 10y ago

ryandrake 10y ago

All it takes is a tiny team of people who "need that job".

tptacek 10y ago
No, you're misunderstanding the concept of the pledge. Most of the people who signed the pledge at (for instance) Google[1] are never going to be anywhere near the actual creation of misuse of databases for deportation or religious discrimination. The pledge isn't about denying labor for the actual project. What it's about is radically altering the cost to companies of having anyone comply. It doesn't matter than you can find 5 random people who need some extra cash to do the scut work of actually abusing the database. When it gets out --- and it will get out --- the company loses team members. If enough people sign this, the market pressure they're exerting becomes significant, and must influence decision making. [1]: by the way, more people from Google signed the pledge than from any other company, and hey Facebook there is absolutely no reason you shouldn't be able to lap them.
- ryandrake 10y ago
  OK, so what you're saying is it boils down to math: N = Number of employees signing the pledge, Q is probability that an employee will quit their otherwise fantastic $300K/yr^ job because someone ELSE at the company is working on MuslimDB, C = average cost to replace and retrain an engineer, P = expected profit from project. If NQC < P, do the project. Makes sense. I suppose whether it has an effect, then, depends on how many people sign it AND are actually willing to go through with it. ^(the salary commonly quoted on HN about how much the usual Googler makes)
  - tptacek 10y ago
    I wonder how many more people I could to sign this with a d3.js with sliders.
  - pvg 10y ago
    Adding a pre-pledge that commits you to not turning every moral question into a variant of the Drake equation would probably improve the onboarding experience and drive conversion.