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As a Tunisian I would like to add a comment: 1- Yes, there is a number of Tunisians that went to Syria. As you have said per/capita it is a large number. There

by Raed667 10y ago

As a Tunisian I would like to add a comment: 1- Yes, there is a number of Tunisians that went to Syria. As you have said per/capita it is a large number. There are around 10 Million Tunisians and from 3000 to 8000 fighting in Syria (depending on the source). 2- This is due to several factors: Post-revolution politics, poverty, mistrust in the state institutions and the police, and -most importantly- a previous government that is (allegedly) complicit. 3- There are no official numbers, the Tunisian government said that they have no idea on the exact number. Some Syrian/Turkish parties gave estimates (the numbers you read in the press) but they are not to be trusted to be objective or impartial. 4- If this "database" checks for first and second degree connections, then the entire country would be flagged.

edblarney 10y ago
Thanks for your comment. And to be clear - I'm not 'blaming' anyone, I spent some time in Tunisia a couple of years ago. I'm just indicating that 'cultures' and 'centers of activity' and 'relationships' are important. So 'I hear you' on that. Still though - Tunisians tend to be great people, much more open minded and educated than, for example Algerians or Moroccans ... and the Tunisian government is not nearly as bad as others ... so it's still a paradox :) Though it could actually be literacy, access to information, and basic financing which enables them to head out to war ... ironically. Certainly, Al Queda members were actually quite well educated, way more so than the average street Arab.
- Raed667 10y ago
  I was just adding some details to the valid points you have mentioned. And indeed, I personally don't understand that paradox as well.
Mz 10y ago
Sadly, HN seems to be not nearly as interested in hearing about things actually going on outside the US. I posted this earlier this morning and it has not a single upvote (at this time): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186741 I do what I can to post international news and I try hard to mot make it just about negative things going on out in the larger world. Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention, but there is a serious diversity issue on many discussion boards in terms of what kinds of topics get attention, if that makes sense. And I don't know if I am making myself clear, but I mean to say that there is a lot of prejudice, basically, often rooted in ignorance (and that ignorance is to some degree happenstance, but is also to some degree by choice). So thank you for commenting.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention, but there is a serious diversity issue on many discussion boards in terms of what kinds of topics get attention, if that makes sense. Well, it is called "Hacker News," after all. Perhaps this just isn't the right venue for discussion of that particular story. If so, that's OK. There are plenty of others.
  - Mz 10y ago
    Original full comment that I was replying to before the substantial edit by CamperBob2: Well, it is called "Hacker News," after all. That's true. But it is not called "American Hacker News." I do try to post international tech news when I can find a good article on the subject. They tend to get not anywhere near as much attention as American subjects. Please don't try to justify this to me. The number three guy on the leaderboard is Dutch. The number four guy is Australian and lives in Great Britain. The number two guy is an American living in Japan. (And I think the current lead mod is Canadian in origin and Paul Graham himself is an immigrant from England.) Programming does not only happen in the U.S. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for the degree of bias on this forum in terms of what people are willing to read and discuss.
gopalv 10y ago
> 4- If this "database" checks for first and second degree connections, then the entire country would be flagged. And some people would like that - which is sort of the problem with Xenophobia-with-added-statistics. The trouble with using statistics to discriminate is that it gives people some sort of plausible deniability which they can offload into opaque computer programs ("Did my race give me a higher interest rate? Did my zipcode raise the rates for an educational loan?" ... and we can't know easily). I'm pondering over how much of "Extreme Vetting" is black boxes like those - whether I'll even know if my code gets used in one.
- edblarney 10y ago
  You can point out the risks in the problem, but you cannot deny the problem. FYI - the US and every country on the planet discriminates against every other nation by way of visas. Why do you think Americans can travel to Canada without a visa and Venezuelans and Turks cannot? Do you think Canada is just going to up and allow Turks to come to Canada without paperwork? No. Why? Because it's Turkey. Very different place than America. By 'xenophobia' do you actually mean to say 'diversity'? :)

by Raed667 10y ago

edblarney 10y ago

Thanks for your comment. And to be clear - I'm not 'blaming' anyone, I spent some time in Tunisia a couple of years ago. I'm just indicating that 'cultures' and 'centers of activity' and 'relationships' are important. So 'I hear you' on that. Still though - Tunisians tend to be great people, much more open minded and educated than, for example Algerians or Moroccans ... and the Tunisian government is not nearly as bad as others ... so it's still a paradox :) Though it could actually be literacy, access to information, and basic financing which enables them to head out to war ... ironically. Certainly, Al Queda members were actually quite well educated, way more so than the average street Arab.

Raed667 10y ago
I was just adding some details to the valid points you have mentioned. And indeed, I personally don't understand that paradox as well.

Mz 10y ago

Sadly, HN seems to be not nearly as interested in hearing about things actually going on outside the US. I posted this earlier this morning and it has not a single upvote (at this time): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186741 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13186741 I do what I can to post international news and I try hard to mot make it just about negative things going on out in the larger world. Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention, but there is a serious diversity issue on many discussion boards in terms of what kinds of topics get attention, if that makes sense. And I don't know if I am making myself clear, but I mean to say that there is a lot of prejudice, basically, often rooted in ignorance (and that ignorance is to some degree happenstance, but is also to some degree by choice). So thank you for commenting.

CamperBob2 10y ago
Sometimes, those stories do get some small attention, but there is a serious diversity issue on many discussion boards in terms of what kinds of topics get attention, if that makes sense. Well, it is called "Hacker News," after all. Perhaps this just isn't the right venue for discussion of that particular story. If so, that's OK. There are plenty of others.
- Mz 10y ago
  Original full comment that I was replying to before the substantial edit by CamperBob2: Well, it is called "Hacker News," after all. That's true. But it is not called "American Hacker News." I do try to post international tech news when I can find a good article on the subject. They tend to get not anywhere near as much attention as American subjects. Please don't try to justify this to me. The number three guy on the leaderboard is Dutch. The number four guy is Australian and lives in Great Britain. The number two guy is an American living in Japan. (And I think the current lead mod is Canadian in origin and Paul Graham himself is an immigrant from England.) Programming does not only happen in the U.S. There is absolutely no justification whatsoever for the degree of bias on this forum in terms of what people are willing to read and discuss.

gopalv 10y ago

> 4- If this "database" checks for first and second degree connections, then the entire country would be flagged. And some people would like that - which is sort of the problem with Xenophobia-with-added-statistics. The trouble with using statistics to discriminate is that it gives people some sort of plausible deniability which they can offload into opaque computer programs ("Did my race give me a higher interest rate? Did my zipcode raise the rates for an educational loan?" ... and we can't know easily). I'm pondering over how much of "Extreme Vetting" is black boxes like those - whether I'll even know if my code gets used in one.

edblarney 10y ago
You can point out the risks in the problem, but you cannot deny the problem. FYI - the US and every country on the planet discriminates against every other nation by way of visas. Why do you think Americans can travel to Canada without a visa and Venezuelans and Turks cannot? Do you think Canada is just going to up and allow Turks to come to Canada without paperwork? No. Why? Because it's Turkey. Very different place than America. By 'xenophobia' do you actually mean to say 'diversity'? :)