4 ms·

I've certainly seen some evidence that getting hired is harder now that I'm older, but I'm not actually sure about the causation. I've seen lots of second hand

by curtis 10y ago

I've certainly seen some evidence that getting hired is harder now that I'm older, but I'm not actually sure about the causation. I've seen lots of second hand evidence that getting hired is a lot harder now for everybody, regardless of age. This is just a theory, but I think we've got a situation where there are about the same number of software engineers out there looking for jobs as ever, and there are about the same number of jobs as ever, but for some reason the system has evolved to where applicants have to apply to a much larger number of positions than they used to, and employers have to screen a much larger number of applicants. When this happens, applicants get much less picky about the positions they apply for (and have to get less picky) and employers end up screening on more and more arbitrary criteria. Part of this might just be what you could call the "online dating" problem, where the problem is that the technology has made it way too easy to make superficial contacts, so contactees get super-dismissive, and contactors decide that if they're going to continue playing the game they're just going to have to make an even greater number of superficial contacts, contactees get even more dismissive, and eventually everybody just gets really jaded. Another part might be (and I should stress again that I'm just hypothesizing here) that because there are so many applicants for each position now, that there is, almost by necessity, a screening layer of professional HR hiring people (not just the classic recruiters, but "sourcers", recruiters working directly for employers, full-time HR people who specialize in hiring, etc.) And it's actually a real problem because these people aren't, in general, competent to be screening applicants, and indeed can't be, unless they are former software engineers themselves.

Silhouette 10y ago
And it's actually a real problem because [professional HR hiring people] aren't, in general, competent to be screening applicants, and indeed can't be, unless they are former software engineers themselves. Bingo. Unfortunately, in a situation where it is typically in both sides' best interests to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses as much as they reasonably can (and sometimes more), it is hard to see how to fix that problem. I suspect the rules of the game need to change, so that technical experts are involved much earlier in the process, even if it means staff with software development or related roles have to step away from their normal work now and then to participate in recruitment activities.
- curtis 10y ago
  I suspect the rules of the game need to change, so that technical experts are involved much earlier in the process, even if it means staff with software development or related roles have to step away from their normal work now and then to participate in recruitment activities. I totally agree with you. In an ideal world (at least a better one), I imagine it would go something like this: Engineering: We need to hire some more people. HR: Why are you telling us? That's not our problem. Engineering: ?! some time later Engineering: OK, we've found a guy we want to hire. HR: Excellent. We can take it from here. Note: I am not exaggerating for effect here. I am totally serious. The hiring of engineers should not be an HR problem.
  - Silhouette 10y ago
    Curiously, that is how it's usually worked in the smaller companies I've worked for over the years. There might have been some sort of external recruitment agency involved in some cases, but the in-house people driving the process were always people like team leaders or department heads where the new recruit would be working, and typically the CVs were triaged or reviewed by a couple of other senior people within those teams or departments. I've never applied to a very large company via the equivalent process myself, only wound up in them through other means. However, seeing from inside how things have sometimes been handled, with HR/legal driving the process and technical people taking a back seat, I can't say I'm regretting my life choices here. :-)
mcv 10y ago
> I've seen lots of second hand evidence that getting hired is a lot harder now for everybody, regardless of age. Is this in the US? Because I don't think it's global. I live in Netherland, and I never have any problem finding a new job. I don't know any unemployed programmers, and a lot of desperate recruiters. Maybe it's the result of Netherland neglecting to invest more in STEM education, and underpaying programmers. Managers tend to get paid better than programmers here, so that's draining the programmer population, keeping demand high.

by curtis 10y ago

Silhouette 10y ago

And it's actually a real problem because [professional HR hiring people] aren't, in general, competent to be screening applicants, and indeed can't be, unless they are former software engineers themselves. Bingo. Unfortunately, in a situation where it is typically in both sides' best interests to play to their strengths and hide their weaknesses as much as they reasonably can (and sometimes more), it is hard to see how to fix that problem. I suspect the rules of the game need to change, so that technical experts are involved much earlier in the process, even if it means staff with software development or related roles have to step away from their normal work now and then to participate in recruitment activities.

curtis 10y ago
I suspect the rules of the game need to change, so that technical experts are involved much earlier in the process, even if it means staff with software development or related roles have to step away from their normal work now and then to participate in recruitment activities. I totally agree with you. In an ideal world (at least a better one), I imagine it would go something like this: Engineering: We need to hire some more people. HR: Why are you telling us? That's not our problem. Engineering: ?! some time later Engineering: OK, we've found a guy we want to hire. HR: Excellent. We can take it from here. Note: I am not exaggerating for effect here. I am totally serious. The hiring of engineers should not be an HR problem.
- Silhouette 10y ago
  Curiously, that is how it's usually worked in the smaller companies I've worked for over the years. There might have been some sort of external recruitment agency involved in some cases, but the in-house people driving the process were always people like team leaders or department heads where the new recruit would be working, and typically the CVs were triaged or reviewed by a couple of other senior people within those teams or departments. I've never applied to a very large company via the equivalent process myself, only wound up in them through other means. However, seeing from inside how things have sometimes been handled, with HR/legal driving the process and technical people taking a back seat, I can't say I'm regretting my life choices here. :-)

mcv 10y ago

> I've seen lots of second hand evidence that getting hired is a lot harder now for everybody, regardless of age. Is this in the US? Because I don't think it's global. I live in Netherland, and I never have any problem finding a new job. I don't know any unemployed programmers, and a lot of desperate recruiters. Maybe it's the result of Netherland neglecting to invest more in STEM education, and underpaying programmers. Managers tend to get paid better than programmers here, so that's draining the programmer population, keeping demand high.