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Blame the environment. It's difficult for me to believe that traits prevalent in 10% or more of the population are actually "disorders". They must have been ad

by pc2g4d 10y ago

Blame the environment. It's difficult for me to believe that traits prevalent in 10% or more of the population are actually "disorders". They must have been advantageous in some past situations in order to be passed on so much, or at least not selected against. Right? So what is it about our environment that makes these traits disadvantageous? Or is that even true? Maybe "mental illness" is an appropriate response to the injustices and impossibilities of modern life. How could we _not_ be having an epidemic of "mental illness" right now given the profound disruptions our society has endured in the last fifty years? Psych drugs seem to me like a case of "you can't get enough of what you don't really need". An alternate view is that they're like a shoehorn---they're there to help normal people conform to the impossible expectations of society. But maybe we don't really need shoehorns for 10% of the population---maybe instead we need to learn to wear sandals or go barefoot. Sorry, I know it's a stretched metaphor. And now I'm done.

kolinko 10y ago
Well, perhaps we don't meed prosthetics either - these people should just find jobs that don't need fully functioning arms.
concinds 10y ago
Blaming culture is way too easy. Anxiety or depression have nothing to do with how "unjust" the culture is. Many people live in the exact same society as you, and had worse starting conditions (socioeconomics, family) but excel, mostly because of social support and strong mindset skills (which can both be acquired through reasonable effort), and because they likely had a healthier childhood and more nurturing parents than others who don't end up doing as well. Jordan Peterson (psychiatrist) says the default state for animals is not calm, but anxiety. An animal only becomes calm in a given environment once he sees and smells that no predators are around to get him, and that they are not in danger. Someone who is chronically anxious will often have grown up in a dysfunctional family and been emotionally neglected. Society didn't do that to them. Traits prevalent in 10+% of the population can still be disorders. In any given society, you'll have the rich, the middle, and the poor. You'll have the psychologically healthy, the average, and the psychologically unhealthy (the 10+%). These traits aren't "selected for" or "advantageous" in some situations. In this society, most people with low self-esteem will die with low self-esteem, since, when it comes to the psyche and emotions, most people only improve superficially, they learn to cope rather than fixing for good. They'll obviously pass that low self-esteem down to their children. No selection involved. Would you say low self-esteem is "advantageous"? Is it an "appropriate response"?
- pc2g4d 10y ago
  I guess I consider dysfunctional families to be part of the injustice of our society. As you say, anxiety is the default state, it's there to keep us alive. So we should blame the family for not being nurturing or the culture for not helping individuals learn how to deal with life, rather than blaming the individual or saying they have some disorder. Low self-esteem isn't advantageous. But getting anxious or depressed when life isn't working out I would suggest actually is advantageous. Being at the lower end of a bell curve doesn't make something a disorder.
vacri 10y ago
> They must have been advantageous in some past situations in order to be passed on so much, or at least not selected against. Right? No. Evolution only requires that you get to breeding age and have viable offspring. It doesn't care about how you feel, or what happens to you after you've bred. As long as the general population of an organism can get their offspring to a viable independent status, it doesn't matter what happens to you. As a results, traits don't have to be beneficial to be passed on; they just need to allow successful breeding. Look at the male insects that are devoured by their females on mating. Once they've mated, they're not necessary to getting the offspring viable, so it doesn't matter to the continuance of the species that they immediately die.

by pc2g4d 10y ago

kolinko 10y ago

Well, perhaps we don't meed prosthetics either - these people should just find jobs that don't need fully functioning arms.

concinds 10y ago

Blaming culture is way too easy. Anxiety or depression have nothing to do with how "unjust" the culture is. Many people live in the exact same society as you, and had worse starting conditions (socioeconomics, family) but excel, mostly because of social support and strong mindset skills (which can both be acquired through reasonable effort), and because they likely had a healthier childhood and more nurturing parents than others who don't end up doing as well. Jordan Peterson (psychiatrist) says the default state for animals is not calm, but anxiety. An animal only becomes calm in a given environment once he sees and smells that no predators are around to get him, and that they are not in danger. Someone who is chronically anxious will often have grown up in a dysfunctional family and been emotionally neglected. Society didn't do that to them. Traits prevalent in 10+% of the population can still be disorders. In any given society, you'll have the rich, the middle, and the poor. You'll have the psychologically healthy, the average, and the psychologically unhealthy (the 10+%). These traits aren't "selected for" or "advantageous" in some situations. In this society, most people with low self-esteem will die with low self-esteem, since, when it comes to the psyche and emotions, most people only improve superficially, they learn to cope rather than fixing for good. They'll obviously pass that low self-esteem down to their children. No selection involved. Would you say low self-esteem is "advantageous"? Is it an "appropriate response"?

pc2g4d 10y ago
I guess I consider dysfunctional families to be part of the injustice of our society. As you say, anxiety is the default state, it's there to keep us alive. So we should blame the family for not being nurturing or the culture for not helping individuals learn how to deal with life, rather than blaming the individual or saying they have some disorder. Low self-esteem isn't advantageous. But getting anxious or depressed when life isn't working out I would suggest actually is advantageous. Being at the lower end of a bell curve doesn't make something a disorder.

vacri 10y ago

> They must have been advantageous in some past situations in order to be passed on so much, or at least not selected against. Right? No. Evolution only requires that you get to breeding age and have viable offspring. It doesn't care about how you feel, or what happens to you after you've bred. As long as the general population of an organism can get their offspring to a viable independent status, it doesn't matter what happens to you. As a results, traits don't have to be beneficial to be passed on; they just need to allow successful breeding. Look at the male insects that are devoured by their females on mating. Once they've mated, they're not necessary to getting the offspring viable, so it doesn't matter to the continuance of the species that they immediately die.