6 ms·

ADHD is a horribly misnamed condition. It's caused by a delay in the development of the frontal cortex which puts people about 30% behind their peers in many hi

ADHD is a horribly misnamed condition. It's caused by a delay in the development of the frontal cortex which puts people about 30% behind their peers in many higher order cognitive functions. If depression is like the flu, ADHD is like missing a leg. You can't regrow or cure a missing leg, all you can do is use a prosthesis -- for ADHD stimulants are the prosthesis for the missing development of the higher order brain functions. ADHD is a serious impairment to normal cognitive functioning. However everything a person with ADHD experience is a part of everyone's ordinary rational expectations: things forgotten, things missing, a lack of motivation, difficulty focusing, emotional dis-regulation, lack of social awareness. And that makes popular perception very difficult to correct -- because it isn't that these things happen, its that they happen to an extreme because of a significant neurological impairment.

DiabloD3 10y ago
As a side note, it seems a lot of ADD/ADHD sufferers should be diagnosed with (instead of or also including) ODD or an executive functioning disorder. Our brains, largely, are badly designed. And it sucks, especially with the HN crowd, we'd all be ten times more productive if we didn't all suffer from the same shit.
- mjburgess 10y ago
  For readers, ODD == Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Basically ADHD is just a symptom checklist, what causes it also causes a whole variety of other stuff not included in the same checklist for somewhat @political" reasons. In particular ODD means being reflexively and exaggeratedly defiant and hostile to authority. Possibly because its associated with external demands that are inherently difficult to meet (because of the ADHD part) and so quite tortuous and frustrating. What's remarkable is that the oppositional characteriststs associated wiith ADHD are significantly helped by stimulants. Which doesnt make any sense, if the oppositionality were some personality characteristic. It arises due to the very same cognative impairments.
  - 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
    Stimulants work because ADHD brains have whacked out dopamine regulation. Stimulants help smooth out the peaks and valleys associated with ADHD. Hyperfocus = overstimulated by dopamine, inattentiveness = understimulated. Taking a stimulate provides a consistent baseline level to help reduce the extremes.
    - warfangle 10y ago
      Stimulants work because they activate the underperforming portions of the prefrontal cortex related to attention management. Chalking it up to dopamine is a gross simplification. Adderal, for example, stimulates the release / reduces the re-uptake of dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin, histamine, and CART peptides.
  - derefr 10y ago
    > causes a whole variety of other stuff not included in the same checklist for somewhat @political" reasons Like what? I have ADHD. I tend to notice that other people I know, who also have ADHD, tend to have a lot of other "not normally associated with ADHD" things in common with me. But I don't know which are true correlations, and which are just pareidolia on my part.
- wu-ikkyu 10y ago
  This is the first time I've heard of ODD. To be honest it seems almost comical that defiance of authority has its own medical diagnosis as a disorder. According to ODD, every pioneer in human rights (I.e. Susan Anthony, Thomas Jefferson, MLK, Jesus) should be regarded as mentally ill and drugged into submission.
  - komali2 10y ago
    The symptoms of the disease don't necessarily translate to having the disease. Not everyone that is sad has clinical depression, not everyone that is obese suffers from glandular disorders. Etc.
    - dilemma 10y ago
      Not every problem a guy has with his girlfriend is necessarily caused by the capitalist mode of production.
  - eon1 10y ago
    It's not a generic "defiance to authority", as I understand it's more like anyone trying to exert any kind of authority over you is bound to generate a kneejerk negative reaction, big issue or small, reasonable or not. Could be a parent, supervisor, partner, teacher, cop, etc. ODD is not related to an actual battle against your oppressors.
- warfangle 10y ago
  ADHD /is/ classified as an executive dysfunction (specifically, in regulating attention). Autism spectrum, schizophrenia, depression, and parkinson's disease are other well known disorders classified as an executive dysfunction. ODD ("a pattern of angry/irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least six months") is not at all the same thing.
- imranq 10y ago
  Badly designed for what? Coding CRUD apps?
  - darpa_escapee 10y ago
    This is a real question, not rhetorical: Does ADHD exist in similar numbers in societies that are less sedentary?
anigbrowl 10y ago
I disagree with your missing leg metaphor (while agreeing with most else you wrote). I have raging ADHD, don't take medication, and do suffer from many of the cognitive impairments you describe, which are certainly disadvantageous. On the other hand I am way way better at some things than most other people - if left alone in the right conditions, I can hyperfocus and do great amounts of work or assimilate great quantities of information, I perform way better than other people in chaotic and emergent environments, and I am way better at coming up with novel solutions to problems or discovering connections between superficially disparate data points. In situations where normal people tire out easily, get overwhelmed by having too much going on, or get stuck in linear thinking patterns, I thrive because that's how my world is by default. That's one reason that a lot of people in film production have ADHD. Equally, it's why I hate post-production, because a lot of the time I'm understimulated and I get bored to distraction without constant realtime feedback from collaborators. Incidentally I really con't like adderall much - it does work for me but I don't enjoy it and find the side effects annoying. As I said I don't take any medication, but I sure wish there was a safe legal way to dose small quantities of cocaine because that stuff works a treat and for me it's no more addictive than celery. EDIT: I should clarify that I don't take medication at present, which goes back about 5 years. I did take a variety of prescription medications over the previous 10 years but was unhappy with the various side effects and never found a good long term fit.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  > In situations where normal people tire out easily, get overwhelmed by having too much going on, or get stuck in linear thinking patterns, I thrive because that's how my world is by default. Huh, yeah that's exactly how I see it, as well. Too bad it's impossible to always be in those situations...
- Declanomous 10y ago
  I started taking medication in my mid-20s, despite having been diagnosed with ADHD around the age of 12. I also have been diagnosed with dysgraphia. I think the effects of dysgraphia are much more akin to losing a limb than ADHD, but taking medication is honestly one of the most life-changing experiences of my life. I tried medication way back when, and the side effects were horrible. I didn't try them again until I was having trouble at work, and I visited a psych for a doctors note requesting some mild accommodations related to my dysgraphia. I had avoided medication because until that point I was sure I could do anything else anyone else could, and I was afraid it would fundamentally change who I was. That fear was largely unfounded. Some medications give me side effects, and some make me feel like I'm not myself. Eventually I found the right medication and dosage. After about a month on that medication, I looked at what I had accomplished and I was so overwhelmed with emotion I honestly cried. I had been making life so unnecessarily hard for myself, and I had been so hard on myself. Like, I cannot believe how much easier everything is. I feel like I used to get everywhere by running in molasses, and then someone told me about highways and cars. The thing about medications is that they don't turn your life around for you. They basically give you the power to control your life. Maybe there isn't a medication out there for you. Honestly, a huge part for me was finding the right doctor. He is one the few docs I've ever met who specializes in adult ADHD, and he's really fucking sharp. I don't actually like our meetings very much, cause he's not much of a conversationalist and is pretty gruff, but he knows his shit. He's willing to write prescriptions that most doctors won't write because the dosages are too abuseable or whatever. (And his other specialty is addiction, so he definitely has a view on that). For instance, I tried Ritalin, and I hated it. I just felt angry the entire day I was on it. I was suddenly aware that I should be concentrate, but I couldn't concentrate at all. Instead of spending several months titrating me up on Adderall, he just gave me a pretty high dose, since my reaction basically indicated my ADHD wasn't going to respond to lower levels. Adderall helped, but the side effects were miserable. I felt like I wasn't myself using it, almost like a zombie. I felt like I couldn't change gears at all. Anyways, long story short, I found Evekeo actually worked best for me. Adderall is 25% levoamphetamines, and 75% dextroamphetamines. Evekeo is 50/50 levo/dextro. My basic understanding is that Levoamphetamines affect the rest of the body, whereas dextroamphetamines mostly affect the head. For this reason, the DEA has typically felt that l-amp has less clinical value and is more abusable, but the difference between Evekeo and Adderall is night and day for me. I actually feel like myself. Now, I have never taken cocaine, so I can't tell you how it compares, but if you feel like adderall takes away your ability to do all of those things you listed as benefits, I'd say that Evekeo is worth a shot. I can relate to wanting to truck it out though. After my second consultation, my doctor said he was amazed by all the achievements I have in my life, given the degree to which I am ADHD. His assessment was that I must be one of the most overwhelmingly stubborn people on the face of the planet. I never have thought as myself as a stubborn person, but my family and closest friends would definitely agree with that statement. I think that stubbornness is what prevented me from seeking help earlier, but also what motivated me to keep going.
NobleLie 10y ago
Is this "30% deficit" (citation needed) conquerable by training and meditation?
- komali2 10y ago
  It wasn't for me. It may be for some.

DiabloD3 10y ago

As a side note, it seems a lot of ADD/ADHD sufferers should be diagnosed with (instead of or also including) ODD or an executive functioning disorder. Our brains, largely, are badly designed. And it sucks, especially with the HN crowd, we'd all be ten times more productive if we didn't all suffer from the same shit.

mjburgess 10y ago
For readers, ODD == Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Basically ADHD is just a symptom checklist, what causes it also causes a whole variety of other stuff not included in the same checklist for somewhat @political" reasons. In particular ODD means being reflexively and exaggeratedly defiant and hostile to authority. Possibly because its associated with external demands that are inherently difficult to meet (because of the ADHD part) and so quite tortuous and frustrating. What's remarkable is that the oppositional characteriststs associated wiith ADHD are significantly helped by stimulants. Which doesnt make any sense, if the oppositionality were some personality characteristic. It arises due to the very same cognative impairments.
- 234dd57d2c8db 10y ago
  Stimulants work because ADHD brains have whacked out dopamine regulation. Stimulants help smooth out the peaks and valleys associated with ADHD. Hyperfocus = overstimulated by dopamine, inattentiveness = understimulated. Taking a stimulate provides a consistent baseline level to help reduce the extremes.
  - warfangle 10y ago
    Stimulants work because they activate the underperforming portions of the prefrontal cortex related to attention management. Chalking it up to dopamine is a gross simplification. Adderal, for example, stimulates the release / reduces the re-uptake of dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin, histamine, and CART peptides.
- derefr 10y ago
  > causes a whole variety of other stuff not included in the same checklist for somewhat @political" reasons Like what? I have ADHD. I tend to notice that other people I know, who also have ADHD, tend to have a lot of other "not normally associated with ADHD" things in common with me. But I don't know which are true correlations, and which are just pareidolia on my part.
wu-ikkyu 10y ago
This is the first time I've heard of ODD. To be honest it seems almost comical that defiance of authority has its own medical diagnosis as a disorder. According to ODD, every pioneer in human rights (I.e. Susan Anthony, Thomas Jefferson, MLK, Jesus) should be regarded as mentally ill and drugged into submission.
- komali2 10y ago
  The symptoms of the disease don't necessarily translate to having the disease. Not everyone that is sad has clinical depression, not everyone that is obese suffers from glandular disorders. Etc.
  - dilemma 10y ago
    Not every problem a guy has with his girlfriend is necessarily caused by the capitalist mode of production.
- eon1 10y ago
  It's not a generic "defiance to authority", as I understand it's more like anyone trying to exert any kind of authority over you is bound to generate a kneejerk negative reaction, big issue or small, reasonable or not. Could be a parent, supervisor, partner, teacher, cop, etc. ODD is not related to an actual battle against your oppressors.
warfangle 10y ago
ADHD /is/ classified as an executive dysfunction (specifically, in regulating attention). Autism spectrum, schizophrenia, depression, and parkinson's disease are other well known disorders classified as an executive dysfunction. ODD ("a pattern of angry/irritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least six months") is not at all the same thing.
imranq 10y ago
Badly designed for what? Coding CRUD apps?
- darpa_escapee 10y ago
  This is a real question, not rhetorical: Does ADHD exist in similar numbers in societies that are less sedentary?

anigbrowl 10y ago

I disagree with your missing leg metaphor (while agreeing with most else you wrote). I have raging ADHD, don't take medication, and do suffer from many of the cognitive impairments you describe, which are certainly disadvantageous. On the other hand I am way way better at some things than most other people - if left alone in the right conditions, I can hyperfocus and do great amounts of work or assimilate great quantities of information, I perform way better than other people in chaotic and emergent environments, and I am way better at coming up with novel solutions to problems or discovering connections between superficially disparate data points. In situations where normal people tire out easily, get overwhelmed by having too much going on, or get stuck in linear thinking patterns, I thrive because that's how my world is by default. That's one reason that a lot of people in film production have ADHD. Equally, it's why I hate post-production, because a lot of the time I'm understimulated and I get bored to distraction without constant realtime feedback from collaborators. Incidentally I really con't like adderall much - it does work for me but I don't enjoy it and find the side effects annoying. As I said I don't take any medication, but I sure wish there was a safe legal way to dose small quantities of cocaine because that stuff works a treat and for me it's no more addictive than celery. EDIT: I should clarify that I don't take medication at present, which goes back about 5 years. I did take a variety of prescription medications over the previous 10 years but was unhappy with the various side effects and never found a good long term fit.

prodmerc 10y ago
> In situations where normal people tire out easily, get overwhelmed by having too much going on, or get stuck in linear thinking patterns, I thrive because that's how my world is by default. Huh, yeah that's exactly how I see it, as well. Too bad it's impossible to always be in those situations...
Declanomous 10y ago
I started taking medication in my mid-20s, despite having been diagnosed with ADHD around the age of 12. I also have been diagnosed with dysgraphia. I think the effects of dysgraphia are much more akin to losing a limb than ADHD, but taking medication is honestly one of the most life-changing experiences of my life. I tried medication way back when, and the side effects were horrible. I didn't try them again until I was having trouble at work, and I visited a psych for a doctors note requesting some mild accommodations related to my dysgraphia. I had avoided medication because until that point I was sure I could do anything else anyone else could, and I was afraid it would fundamentally change who I was. That fear was largely unfounded. Some medications give me side effects, and some make me feel like I'm not myself. Eventually I found the right medication and dosage. After about a month on that medication, I looked at what I had accomplished and I was so overwhelmed with emotion I honestly cried. I had been making life so unnecessarily hard for myself, and I had been so hard on myself. Like, I cannot believe how much easier everything is. I feel like I used to get everywhere by running in molasses, and then someone told me about highways and cars. The thing about medications is that they don't turn your life around for you. They basically give you the power to control your life. Maybe there isn't a medication out there for you. Honestly, a huge part for me was finding the right doctor. He is one the few docs I've ever met who specializes in adult ADHD, and he's really fucking sharp. I don't actually like our meetings very much, cause he's not much of a conversationalist and is pretty gruff, but he knows his shit. He's willing to write prescriptions that most doctors won't write because the dosages are too abuseable or whatever. (And his other specialty is addiction, so he definitely has a view on that). For instance, I tried Ritalin, and I hated it. I just felt angry the entire day I was on it. I was suddenly aware that I should be concentrate, but I couldn't concentrate at all. Instead of spending several months titrating me up on Adderall, he just gave me a pretty high dose, since my reaction basically indicated my ADHD wasn't going to respond to lower levels. Adderall helped, but the side effects were miserable. I felt like I wasn't myself using it, almost like a zombie. I felt like I couldn't change gears at all. Anyways, long story short, I found Evekeo actually worked best for me. Adderall is 25% levoamphetamines, and 75% dextroamphetamines. Evekeo is 50/50 levo/dextro. My basic understanding is that Levoamphetamines affect the rest of the body, whereas dextroamphetamines mostly affect the head. For this reason, the DEA has typically felt that l-amp has less clinical value and is more abusable, but the difference between Evekeo and Adderall is night and day for me. I actually feel like myself. Now, I have never taken cocaine, so I can't tell you how it compares, but if you feel like adderall takes away your ability to do all of those things you listed as benefits, I'd say that Evekeo is worth a shot. I can relate to wanting to truck it out though. After my second consultation, my doctor said he was amazed by all the achievements I have in my life, given the degree to which I am ADHD. His assessment was that I must be one of the most overwhelmingly stubborn people on the face of the planet. I never have thought as myself as a stubborn person, but my family and closest friends would definitely agree with that statement. I think that stubbornness is what prevented me from seeking help earlier, but also what motivated me to keep going.

NobleLie 10y ago

Is this "30% deficit" (citation needed) conquerable by training and meditation?

komali2 10y ago
It wasn't for me. It may be for some.