4 ms·

Ready to leave? Why you shouldn't give two weeks' notice (2005)

16 points by ryanelkins 16y ago

jdminhbg 16y ago
Getting a 500... Cache is here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n5nvfo7nIAoJ:wistechnology.com/articles/1757/+http://wistechnology.com/articles/1757/&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n5nvfo7...
- sfall 16y ago
  same here
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
pavel_lishin 16y ago
Sounds like a very pessimistic view geared towards drones working in cube-farms for Corporation, Inc.
- prodigal_erik 16y ago
  Even large corporations aren't necessarily like that. When one of my contracts at Microsoft was up, they trusted me to pave my desktop and lock myself out of the building (by hiding my keycard in my lead's office).
slantyyz 16y ago
The guy forgot to caveat his article. I would suggest that anyone on the cusp of resigning consult their actual employment contract before resigning without notice. Most employment contracts have a clause related to employee notice.
- apphacker 16y ago
  Those kinds of clauses are illegal in states like California and Arizona. You or your employer can terminate your relationship at any moment without cause. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
  - j_baker 16y ago
    Not true. At-will employment is more of a default than a binding rule. In other words, you and your employer may have a contract that sets more specific rules than what at-will employment requires. However, if you don't, then it is implied that you are employed at will.
    - dmm 16y ago
      A contract can say any thing but courts will enforce only certain things.
- potatolicious 16y ago
  In most at-will employment states the at-will part cuts both ways - if they can fire you without notice, you can quit without notice.
jimm 16y ago
"You may want to give two week's notice, but from a security standpoint, you are out the door that day. Locks are changed. Passwords and IDs are terminated so you should have no access to files or other confidential information. That is the reality of today's workplace." This policy always mystified me. If you've decided to leave and have decided to do something malicious, you would have done it before telling your employer. By the time you tell them, it's too late.
- eru 16y ago
  Perhaps that's the case with rational people. People who do malicious things may not be too rational in the first place.
- mansr 16y ago
  It's often simply a matter of protecting the company's secrets. The longer you stay, the more you might learn and potentially use against the company if later working for a competitor. A policy like that does not at all have to be rooted in paranoia. Obviously, most companies don't have any secrets of such magnitude that it would matter, although many like to pretend that way.
icey 16y ago
Alternate title: How to burn bridges in one easy step
- ryanelkins 16y ago
  It's a touchy subject, which is why I thought it would be interesting to submit the article and see what people had to say. I'd never really considered NOT giving notice but I thought the article brought up some good reasons to consider. (Although this does seem geared more towards leaving a job you are unhappy with.) One aspect I hadn't thought of was liability. There is also the chance that they decide to terminate you immediately and what if you needed that last paycheck? You lose some control over your own situation by giving notice and for some people that may not be worth keeping that bridge around I suppose.
  - icey 16y ago
    The few times that I've hired someone and they were immediately cut loose, they just called me to let me know they were available sooner than expected. That worked out well for everyone. Liability is limited to the things you're actually responsible for. In the example in the article, the employer would have to prove in courts that the employee was responsible for the failure. Convenient timing is not grounds for a viable lawsuit. By leaving without giving notice you aren't just burning bridges with the employer you're leaving; you're also letting everybody you work with know that you are someone who will do this sort of thing. Nobody wants to work with someone who might decide to change jobs and leave them hanging with no notice. I know a few people who have done this; I absolutely remember them and won't hire them if I get resumes from them. Additionally, if someone calls because they knew we worked at the same place and they're thinking about hiring them, the first thing I'm going to share is the fact that the person left everyone hanging.
    - DenisM 16y ago
      if someone calls because they knew we worked at the same place and they're thinking about hiring them, the first thing I'm going to share is the fact that the person left everyone hanging. Check with your lawyer before you do that. Really.
efsavage 16y ago
You should be _prepared_ to leave immediately when you give notice, but wow, giving no notice is up near the top of the list in terms of dick moves. The exception to this is if you're being grossly mistreated (as in harassed or demeaned or abused, not as in underpaid). I've given less than two weeks before, but it was a contract I'd only been on for 3 weeks, so 2 weeks notice was excessive. Anything else, 2 weeks is a minimum. If you're a key person at a startup or small company, 4-8 weeks is more appropriate.
foulmouthboy 16y ago
And people wonder what happened to things like "responsibility". This is a professor teaching this? Whatever happened to the golden rule?
- chc 16y ago
  In fairness, it's about as much "responsibility" as most companies show toward their employees when firing them. I don't encourage being a jerk when you can avoid it, but the generally accepted view that employees owe the business more deference and respect than the business shows them is downright feudal.
  - brazzy 16y ago
    It's not true that "most" companies do the things mentioned in the articles (firing people through a note on their desk or a fax), and in most cases that kind of thing is done by weak managers who are simply afraid of telling people bad news face to face.
chollida1 16y ago
I'd be curious to see other peoples opinion's on this article. In my experience the moment you are an "anyone" in a company then your employment contract almost always stipulates the amount of time that you must give before leaving. It almost always works both ways, with your employer being required to give the same amount of notice before letting you go, or severance in replacement. I can't imagine any one other than an entry level worker not having a defined time to give before leaving. I also think it speaks pretty poorly on someone to just announce that they are leaving as of today.
ryanelkins 16y ago
Here is a follow up to this article where he talks a bit more about the ethics involved: http://wistechnology.com/articles/2786/ http://wistechnology.com/articles/2786/
btilly 16y ago
It should be noted that this article is from 2005. I also have to say that my personal experience is the opposite of what this article says. How you treat your former company and co-workers stays in their minds, and affects their future opinion of you. Most fields, in most cities, form fairly small communities and you will wind up working with people again. You don't want to burn bridges like this. That said, you should be mentally prepared for the possibility of having access yanked.
j_baker 16y ago
I don't think it's more accurate to say you should never give notice than to say you should always give notice. Make your own decision based on the context of your situation and your knowledge of the pros and cons.
varikin 16y ago
In the example at the end, how does the lady leaving with no notice affect the scenario. I understand how being involved with the lawsuit and server crash could affect her next job, but why does how she quit affect it? Overall, I think this is horrible advice. When I quit, I want to let my boss know so he can ensure my responsibilities are covered the next day. If they want to kick me out early for security reasons, that is fine, though I haven't seen that often when leaving on good terms. And what happens when my now former boss, who is mad at me, leaves for a new company that I am interested in? I might have burned that bridge.

16 points by ryanelkins 16y ago

Getting a 500... Cache is here: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n5nvfo7nIAoJ:wistechnology.com/articles/1757/+http://wistechnology.com/articles/1757/&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n5nvfo7...

sfall 16y ago
same here

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

pavel_lishin 16y ago

Sounds like a very pessimistic view geared towards drones working in cube-farms for Corporation, Inc.

prodigal_erik 16y ago
Even large corporations aren't necessarily like that. When one of my contracts at Microsoft was up, they trusted me to pave my desktop and lock myself out of the building (by hiding my keycard in my lead's office).

slantyyz 16y ago

The guy forgot to caveat his article. I would suggest that anyone on the cusp of resigning consult their actual employment contract before resigning without notice. Most employment contracts have a clause related to employee notice.

apphacker 16y ago
Those kinds of clauses are illegal in states like California and Arizona. You or your employer can terminate your relationship at any moment without cause. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment
- j_baker 16y ago
  Not true. At-will employment is more of a default than a binding rule. In other words, you and your employer may have a contract that sets more specific rules than what at-will employment requires. However, if you don't, then it is implied that you are employed at will.
  - dmm 16y ago
    A contract can say any thing but courts will enforce only certain things.
potatolicious 16y ago
In most at-will employment states the at-will part cuts both ways - if they can fire you without notice, you can quit without notice.

jimm 16y ago

"You may want to give two week's notice, but from a security standpoint, you are out the door that day. Locks are changed. Passwords and IDs are terminated so you should have no access to files or other confidential information. That is the reality of today's workplace." This policy always mystified me. If you've decided to leave and have decided to do something malicious, you would have done it before telling your employer. By the time you tell them, it's too late.

eru 16y ago
Perhaps that's the case with rational people. People who do malicious things may not be too rational in the first place.
mansr 16y ago
It's often simply a matter of protecting the company's secrets. The longer you stay, the more you might learn and potentially use against the company if later working for a competitor. A policy like that does not at all have to be rooted in paranoia. Obviously, most companies don't have any secrets of such magnitude that it would matter, although many like to pretend that way.

icey 16y ago

Alternate title: How to burn bridges in one easy step

ryanelkins 16y ago
It's a touchy subject, which is why I thought it would be interesting to submit the article and see what people had to say. I'd never really considered NOT giving notice but I thought the article brought up some good reasons to consider. (Although this does seem geared more towards leaving a job you are unhappy with.) One aspect I hadn't thought of was liability. There is also the chance that they decide to terminate you immediately and what if you needed that last paycheck? You lose some control over your own situation by giving notice and for some people that may not be worth keeping that bridge around I suppose.
- icey 16y ago
  The few times that I've hired someone and they were immediately cut loose, they just called me to let me know they were available sooner than expected. That worked out well for everyone. Liability is limited to the things you're actually responsible for. In the example in the article, the employer would have to prove in courts that the employee was responsible for the failure. Convenient timing is not grounds for a viable lawsuit. By leaving without giving notice you aren't just burning bridges with the employer you're leaving; you're also letting everybody you work with know that you are someone who will do this sort of thing. Nobody wants to work with someone who might decide to change jobs and leave them hanging with no notice. I know a few people who have done this; I absolutely remember them and won't hire them if I get resumes from them. Additionally, if someone calls because they knew we worked at the same place and they're thinking about hiring them, the first thing I'm going to share is the fact that the person left everyone hanging.
  - DenisM 16y ago
    if someone calls because they knew we worked at the same place and they're thinking about hiring them, the first thing I'm going to share is the fact that the person left everyone hanging. Check with your lawyer before you do that. Really.

efsavage 16y ago

You should be _prepared_ to leave immediately when you give notice, but wow, giving no notice is up near the top of the list in terms of dick moves. The exception to this is if you're being grossly mistreated (as in harassed or demeaned or abused, not as in underpaid). I've given less than two weeks before, but it was a contract I'd only been on for 3 weeks, so 2 weeks notice was excessive. Anything else, 2 weeks is a minimum. If you're a key person at a startup or small company, 4-8 weeks is more appropriate.

foulmouthboy 16y ago

And people wonder what happened to things like "responsibility". This is a professor teaching this? Whatever happened to the golden rule?

chc 16y ago
In fairness, it's about as much "responsibility" as most companies show toward their employees when firing them. I don't encourage being a jerk when you can avoid it, but the generally accepted view that employees owe the business more deference and respect than the business shows them is downright feudal.
- brazzy 16y ago
  It's not true that "most" companies do the things mentioned in the articles (firing people through a note on their desk or a fax), and in most cases that kind of thing is done by weak managers who are simply afraid of telling people bad news face to face.

chollida1 16y ago

I'd be curious to see other peoples opinion's on this article. In my experience the moment you are an "anyone" in a company then your employment contract almost always stipulates the amount of time that you must give before leaving. It almost always works both ways, with your employer being required to give the same amount of notice before letting you go, or severance in replacement. I can't imagine any one other than an entry level worker not having a defined time to give before leaving. I also think it speaks pretty poorly on someone to just announce that they are leaving as of today.

ryanelkins 16y ago

Here is a follow up to this article where he talks a bit more about the ethics involved: http://wistechnology.com/articles/2786/ http://wistechnology.com/articles/2786/

btilly 16y ago

It should be noted that this article is from 2005. I also have to say that my personal experience is the opposite of what this article says. How you treat your former company and co-workers stays in their minds, and affects their future opinion of you. Most fields, in most cities, form fairly small communities and you will wind up working with people again. You don't want to burn bridges like this. That said, you should be mentally prepared for the possibility of having access yanked.

j_baker 16y ago

I don't think it's more accurate to say you should never give notice than to say you should always give notice. Make your own decision based on the context of your situation and your knowledge of the pros and cons.

varikin 16y ago

In the example at the end, how does the lady leaving with no notice affect the scenario. I understand how being involved with the lawsuit and server crash could affect her next job, but why does how she quit affect it? Overall, I think this is horrible advice. When I quit, I want to let my boss know so he can ensure my responsibilities are covered the next day. If they want to kick me out early for security reasons, that is fine, though I haven't seen that often when leaving on good terms. And what happens when my now former boss, who is mad at me, leaves for a new company that I am interested in? I might have burned that bridge.