4 ms·

IMO there are only two companies in the world right now that could possibly compete against Google and Facebook on that kind of scale but with a different, more

by kijin 10y ago

IMO there are only two companies in the world right now that could possibly compete against Google and Facebook on that kind of scale but with a different, more privacy-respecting business model. Unfortunately, the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy despite being in an excellent position to make it a distinguishing feature of their platform; and the one in Redmond with its always-calling-home operating system has just blown a ton of goodwill that it had accumulated over the last few years.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
Microsoft unfortunately learned some of the right lessons of how Google beat them... And some of the wrong ones too. But as their privacy fiascos aren't central to their business (unlike where ads is 99% of Google's), my hope is they can still do an about face on privacy.
potatolicious 10y ago
> "the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy" Genuinely curious - but how so? My observation of Apple so far is that they've taken a remarkably strong privacy stance. Not maintaining logs of iMessage, keeping nearly all personal data on-device, ensuring analytics do not leak personal data, going above and beyond to ensure their customers' devices are strongly encrypted (and exceptionally difficult to break, even for government entities)... And they've made a point of publicizing this during their keynotes, too, so much of this isn't necessarily even under-the-hood details that only us nerds know about.
- matt4077 10y ago
  Indeed. They stared down the FBI with engineers threatening to quit and/or go to jail rather than compromising their users' phones. That had the enormous risk of making them unpalatable to the conservative half of the nation. Compare to yahoo, where they apparently handed out data to anyone asking, and not a single person considered it m0re important than their paycheck.
  - jjwiseman 10y ago
    A single person reportedly did consider it more important: "According to two of the former employees, Yahoo Chief Executive Marissa Mayer's decision to obey the directive roiled some senior executives and led to the June 2015 departure of Chief Information Security Officer Alex Stamos, who now holds the top security job at Facebook Inc." http://www.reuters.com/article/us-yahoo-nsa-exclusive-idUSKCN1241YT http://www.reuters.com/article/us-yahoo-nsa-exclusive-idUSKC...
- kijin 10y ago
  Yes, they do talk about privacy, and I respect them for taking a stance when the FBI asked them to decrypt a phone. But talking to nerds is not enough. Apple could do so much more than that. Their marketing department could make privacy a major conversation point for ordinary people who are looking for a new phone or tablet. Like, make the Apple brand synonymous with peace of mind. Drill that into every consumer's subconsciousness. Actually hurt Google's bottom line where it hurts them the most, because they have no other business model. In an ideal world, major Android vendors such as Samsung would take notice and begin to make drastic changes to their branches of Android in order to compete with Apple in the privacy department. Leaving the Pixel as the worst choice when it comes to privacy :p
mikestew 10y ago
Unfortunately, the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy despite being in an excellent position to make it a distinguishing feature of their platform; (EDIT: read your reply further down; okay, we're not as far apart as I thought; in fact, I think you're spot on. I'll leave this here anyway.) Wow, do we have differing points of view. The way I look at Apple these days is that privacy is the distinguishing feature of their platform. What other device maker is visibly working to ensure that even they themselves cannot access the data on your device? Now, any contrarian argument is sure to point out the holes, but IMO it's the best we've got at the moment, and Apple appears to me to give a message of "we don't care about your data, we're content to collect money from you by selling you shiny trinkets".
alexbecker 10y ago
I think Apple is at least as dangerous in the long-run. Yes, an iPhone is much more secure (against anyone but Apple) than any Android phone. But it's much less free. In the Apple ecosystem users have no say over their devices, and developers only do with Apple's blessing. In an Apple-dominated world there are 3 castes: Apple, Apple's favorite devs, and everyone else who has no say in technology anymore. I'm no RMS, but I think this would be a disaster.

by kijin 10y ago

ocdtrekkie 10y ago

Microsoft unfortunately learned some of the right lessons of how Google beat them... And some of the wrong ones too. But as their privacy fiascos aren't central to their business (unlike where ads is 99% of Google's), my hope is they can still do an about face on privacy.

potatolicious 10y ago

> "the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy" Genuinely curious - but how so? My observation of Apple so far is that they've taken a remarkably strong privacy stance. Not maintaining logs of iMessage, keeping nearly all personal data on-device, ensuring analytics do not leak personal data, going above and beyond to ensure their customers' devices are strongly encrypted (and exceptionally difficult to break, even for government entities)... And they've made a point of publicizing this during their keynotes, too, so much of this isn't necessarily even under-the-hood details that only us nerds know about.

matt4077 10y ago
Indeed. They stared down the FBI with engineers threatening to quit and/or go to jail rather than compromising their users' phones. That had the enormous risk of making them unpalatable to the conservative half of the nation. Compare to yahoo, where they apparently handed out data to anyone asking, and not a single person considered it m0re important than their paycheck.
- jjwiseman 10y ago
  A single person reportedly did consider it more important: "According to two of the former employees, Yahoo Chief Executive Marissa Mayer's decision to obey the directive roiled some senior executives and led to the June 2015 departure of Chief Information Security Officer Alex Stamos, who now holds the top security job at Facebook Inc." http://www.reuters.com/article/us-yahoo-nsa-exclusive-idUSKCN1241YT http://www.reuters.com/article/us-yahoo-nsa-exclusive-idUSKC...
kijin 10y ago
Yes, they do talk about privacy, and I respect them for taking a stance when the FBI asked them to decrypt a phone. But talking to nerds is not enough. Apple could do so much more than that. Their marketing department could make privacy a major conversation point for ordinary people who are looking for a new phone or tablet. Like, make the Apple brand synonymous with peace of mind. Drill that into every consumer's subconsciousness. Actually hurt Google's bottom line where it hurts them the most, because they have no other business model. In an ideal world, major Android vendors such as Samsung would take notice and begin to make drastic changes to their branches of Android in order to compete with Apple in the privacy department. Leaving the Pixel as the worst choice when it comes to privacy :p

mikestew 10y ago

Unfortunately, the one in Cupertino only takes a lukewarm stance on privacy despite being in an excellent position to make it a distinguishing feature of their platform; (EDIT: read your reply further down; okay, we're not as far apart as I thought; in fact, I think you're spot on. I'll leave this here anyway.) Wow, do we have differing points of view. The way I look at Apple these days is that privacy is the distinguishing feature of their platform. What other device maker is visibly working to ensure that even they themselves cannot access the data on your device? Now, any contrarian argument is sure to point out the holes, but IMO it's the best we've got at the moment, and Apple appears to me to give a message of "we don't care about your data, we're content to collect money from you by selling you shiny trinkets".

alexbecker 10y ago

I think Apple is at least as dangerous in the long-run. Yes, an iPhone is much more secure (against anyone but Apple) than any Android phone. But it's much less free. In the Apple ecosystem users have no say over their devices, and developers only do with Apple's blessing. In an Apple-dominated world there are 3 castes: Apple, Apple's favorite devs, and everyone else who has no say in technology anymore. I'm no RMS, but I think this would be a disaster.