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Does this theory work if you apply it to the past? Have Snowden's leaks about surveillance or relevations about Obama's drone programme (killing people, even US

by tomp 10y ago

Does this theory work if you apply it to the past? Have Snowden's leaks about surveillance or relevations about Obama's drone programme (killing people, even US citizens, without trial and with a lot of collateral damage) resulted in any change in government behaviour (except more secrecy and extensive supression of leaks/information)? My take on these questions is "no", but I haven't been following the events in detail, so I might be missing some positive consequences.

acqq 10y ago
> Does this theory work if you apply it to the past? Have Snowden's leaks about surveillance or relevations about Obama's drone programme resulted in any change in government behaviour? There were certainly Obama's voters that were disappointed by what Obama did, after he previously spoke differently. They have thought along these lines of the article: "business as usual" ... "problems won't go away on their own" ... and didn't vote for her. The problem is only having a binary choice when the both options don't look good.
ethbro 10y ago
We wouldn't be having these conversations if the leaks hadn't happened. It was suspected before, now it's known. That's a fairly big difference. Or in other words, speaking about nation state backhaul taps, etc as a threat model before made you a paranoid OpenBSD cyberpunk: now it makes you an average HN commenter.
- bmj 10y ago
  "We" are having these conversations, but in the time since the Snowden leak, have we seen the government move away from the behaviors and patterns that Snowden brought to light?
  - ethbro 10y ago
    Big ship, slow turning, etc. It's been 3 years since the initial leaks. It took roughly 2 years between the Washington Post first reporting on Watergate and Nixon's resignation. And that was pertaining to multiple obviously illegal activities. National security and executive orders have a lot more gray area. The most important thing is to keep the pressure on, keep it in the public discourse, and make it uncomfortable for anyone who supports the apparatus.
AimHere 10y ago
Snowden forced the government to put in place a whole bunch of new procedures and regulations over the NSA. Much of it is, of course, cosmetic and inadequate, but it works towards slowing down the surveillance campaign and providing some sort of leverage for future lawsuits and the like. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsa-spying-programs-have-changed-since-snowden/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsa-spying...

by tomp 10y ago

acqq 10y ago

> Does this theory work if you apply it to the past? Have Snowden's leaks about surveillance or relevations about Obama's drone programme resulted in any change in government behaviour? There were certainly Obama's voters that were disappointed by what Obama did, after he previously spoke differently. They have thought along these lines of the article: "business as usual" ... "problems won't go away on their own" ... and didn't vote for her. The problem is only having a binary choice when the both options don't look good.

ethbro 10y ago

We wouldn't be having these conversations if the leaks hadn't happened. It was suspected before, now it's known. That's a fairly big difference. Or in other words, speaking about nation state backhaul taps, etc as a threat model before made you a paranoid OpenBSD cyberpunk: now it makes you an average HN commenter.

bmj 10y ago
"We" are having these conversations, but in the time since the Snowden leak, have we seen the government move away from the behaviors and patterns that Snowden brought to light?
- ethbro 10y ago
  Big ship, slow turning, etc. It's been 3 years since the initial leaks. It took roughly 2 years between the Washington Post first reporting on Watergate and Nixon's resignation. And that was pertaining to multiple obviously illegal activities. National security and executive orders have a lot more gray area. The most important thing is to keep the pressure on, keep it in the public discourse, and make it uncomfortable for anyone who supports the apparatus.

AimHere 10y ago

Snowden forced the government to put in place a whole bunch of new procedures and regulations over the NSA. Much of it is, of course, cosmetic and inadequate, but it works towards slowing down the surveillance campaign and providing some sort of leverage for future lawsuits and the like. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsa-spying-programs-have-changed-since-snowden/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsa-spying...