5 ms·

My first thought upon seeing this is that I was not aware that Firefox sends this kind of data to Mozilla. Under "how is the report created" [1] it says that "

by avian 10y ago

My first thought upon seeing this is that I was not aware that Firefox sends this kind of data to Mozilla. Under "how is the report created" [1] it says that "Firefox automatically collects information [...] unless users disable this collection". This seems to be in conflict with Mozilla Telemetry FAQ [2] that says that data collection is disabled by default for release builds. In fact, on Firefox 50.1.0 on Debian I no longer see the "Share additional data" setting mentioned in [3] - see screenshot in [4]. Does this mean that Telemetry is now enabled by default and can't be disabled? [1] https://metrics.mozilla.com/firefox-hardware-report/ https://metrics.mozilla.com/firefox-hardware-report/ [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry/FAQ#Is_Telemetry_enabled_by_default_on_normal_Firefox_releases.3F https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry/FAQ#Is_Telemetry_enabled_... [3] https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/share-telemetry-data-mozilla-help-improve-firefox?redirectlocale=en-US&redirectslug=how-can-i-help-submitting-performance-data https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/share-telemetry-data-mo... [4] https://www.tablix.org/~avian/stuff/firefox_data_choices.png https://www.tablix.org/~avian/stuff/firefox_data_choices.png

phlsa 10y ago
Mozilla collects a limited set of aggregate data by default, but it can be opted out. Users can also opt in to send a more extensive data set (also aggregate AFAIK), but that's not the default. The screen shot from your preferences section is odd - all the boxes are there on Windows and macOS for me. Perhaps you can file a bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org
- yoasif_ 10y ago
  Just tried with a new profile, and this comment is accurate. This is the default collection that is on but can be opted out of: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#health-report https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#health-report This is what users can opt into: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#telemetry https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#telemetry
gbuk2013 10y ago
If I remember correctly, the first time you run Firefox with a new profile you get a message about data gathering with an option to opt out.
- vog 10y ago
  > with an option to opt out. Ouch. I'm pretty sure that here in Germany they could be sued for that. Regarding privacy law there we have a general consensus that out-out is too weak in almost all cases. You need opt-in, or in some cases double opt-in. Also, I wonder why Mozilla is playing the game that way. Aren't they afraid that actions like this may damage their reputation? On the other hand, this may simply be the continuation of their "pragmatic" policy that led them into feeding Google Analytics with their sites and making Google the default search engine (instead of privacy-friendly alternatives).
  - rebelwebmaster 10y ago
    All telemetry probes have to go through a Data Review which includes Mozilla's Legal team vetting it. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Data_Collection https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Data_Collection There's also a Medium post that went out with the Hardware Report that details more about the process behind it. https://medium.com/mozilla-tech/https-medium-com-mozilla-tech-how-its-built-the-firefox-hardware-survey-5a44dc167315 https://medium.com/mozilla-tech/https-medium-com-mozilla-tec...
    - cpeterso 10y ago
      Most of Firefox's telemetry is opt-in for the Firefox Release channel. You can see the few opt-out metrics by searching for "releaseChannelCollection": "opt-out" in https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/toolkit/components/telemetry/Histograms.json https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/toolkit/comp....
  - Sylos 10y ago
    AFAIK you only need opt-in for personally identifiable data. Firefox would also definitely not be the first piece of software to run in Germany that has opt-out instead of opt-in. Most software does it that way and usually much sneakier than Firefox.
the8472 10y ago
> In fact, on Firefox 50.1.0 on Debian Are you using a FF build from mozilla or from debian? Debian modifies theirs.
- rebelwebmaster 10y ago
  This. Various distros ship with different defaults.
  - cpeterso 10y ago
    And AFAIK distro builds of Firefox do not send telemetry to Mozilla. Thus Mozilla has limited insight into the Firefox Linux population, such as how many are running 32- vs 64-bit builds.
blauditore 10y ago
The first time you start Firefox, it gives you a notification (bottom bar, I think) among the lines of "we're collecting stats for improvement" and two buttons "Ok" and "Disable". IIRC, it defaulted to enabled, but didn't appear sneaky to me at all.
- bhauer 10y ago
  Exactly. It's easy to opt out, as long as you're paying a bit of attention when you first start up Firefox. It's easy to opt-out later if you are comfortable navigating the preferences dialogs. If anything, I am interested in the bias this data will have since I suspect many advanced users instinctively opt out of data collection policies. I opt out of anything that I can, and I would opt out of more if the options were readily available. Since advanced users are more likely—in my estimation—to have higher-specification hardware, I suspect the data is slightly biased toward the low-end.
  - dallamaneni 10y ago
    I consider myself an advanced user and I enable sending Telemetry and crash reports on Firefox explicitly. I dont do that on Chrome but I prefer doing that on Firefox. The point I am trying to make is, although I agree that some users may opt-out, many trust Mozilla and so would usually let it collect data like this.
    - bhauer 10y ago
      A good point. If there were one major organization that I feel comfortable sending telemetry data to, it may be Mozilla—the only organization that makes respect for their user's privacy a paramount concern. (I more or less instinctively opt out of data collection and have never enabled it in Firefox.) Still, the self selection bias is a curiosity.
      - Manishearth 10y ago
        Even if you don't trust Mozilla, the list of things Firefox collects as telemetry on release is extremely limited. (You will have to trust that the binary you downloaded is built from source though, but you can build yourself and/or turn the pref off of you care that much).
dblohm7 10y ago
See the Firefox Privacy Notice [1]. This kind of data is part of the "Firefox Health Report," which is opt-out. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/
chei0iaV 10y ago
You can see the actual data if you go to Menu > Help > Firefox Health Report, click Raw Data and select a date.

by avian 10y ago

phlsa 10y ago

Mozilla collects a limited set of aggregate data by default, but it can be opted out. Users can also opt in to send a more extensive data set (also aggregate AFAIK), but that's not the default. The screen shot from your preferences section is odd - all the boxes are there on Windows and macOS for me. Perhaps you can file a bug on bugzilla.mozilla.org

yoasif_ 10y ago
Just tried with a new profile, and this comment is accurate. This is the default collection that is on but can be opted out of: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#health-report https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#health-report This is what users can opt into: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#telemetry https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/#telemetry

gbuk2013 10y ago

If I remember correctly, the first time you run Firefox with a new profile you get a message about data gathering with an option to opt out.

vog 10y ago
> with an option to opt out. Ouch. I'm pretty sure that here in Germany they could be sued for that. Regarding privacy law there we have a general consensus that out-out is too weak in almost all cases. You need opt-in, or in some cases double opt-in. Also, I wonder why Mozilla is playing the game that way. Aren't they afraid that actions like this may damage their reputation? On the other hand, this may simply be the continuation of their "pragmatic" policy that led them into feeding Google Analytics with their sites and making Google the default search engine (instead of privacy-friendly alternatives).
- rebelwebmaster 10y ago
  All telemetry probes have to go through a Data Review which includes Mozilla's Legal team vetting it. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Data_Collection https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/Data_Collection There's also a Medium post that went out with the Hardware Report that details more about the process behind it. https://medium.com/mozilla-tech/https-medium-com-mozilla-tech-how-its-built-the-firefox-hardware-survey-5a44dc167315 https://medium.com/mozilla-tech/https-medium-com-mozilla-tec...
  - cpeterso 10y ago
    Most of Firefox's telemetry is opt-in for the Firefox Release channel. You can see the few opt-out metrics by searching for "releaseChannelCollection": "opt-out" in https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/toolkit/components/telemetry/Histograms.json https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/tip/toolkit/comp....
- Sylos 10y ago
  AFAIK you only need opt-in for personally identifiable data. Firefox would also definitely not be the first piece of software to run in Germany that has opt-out instead of opt-in. Most software does it that way and usually much sneakier than Firefox.

the8472 10y ago

> In fact, on Firefox 50.1.0 on Debian Are you using a FF build from mozilla or from debian? Debian modifies theirs.

rebelwebmaster 10y ago
This. Various distros ship with different defaults.
- cpeterso 10y ago
  And AFAIK distro builds of Firefox do not send telemetry to Mozilla. Thus Mozilla has limited insight into the Firefox Linux population, such as how many are running 32- vs 64-bit builds.

blauditore 10y ago

The first time you start Firefox, it gives you a notification (bottom bar, I think) among the lines of "we're collecting stats for improvement" and two buttons "Ok" and "Disable". IIRC, it defaulted to enabled, but didn't appear sneaky to me at all.

bhauer 10y ago
Exactly. It's easy to opt out, as long as you're paying a bit of attention when you first start up Firefox. It's easy to opt-out later if you are comfortable navigating the preferences dialogs. If anything, I am interested in the bias this data will have since I suspect many advanced users instinctively opt out of data collection policies. I opt out of anything that I can, and I would opt out of more if the options were readily available. Since advanced users are more likely—in my estimation—to have higher-specification hardware, I suspect the data is slightly biased toward the low-end.
- dallamaneni 10y ago
  I consider myself an advanced user and I enable sending Telemetry and crash reports on Firefox explicitly. I dont do that on Chrome but I prefer doing that on Firefox. The point I am trying to make is, although I agree that some users may opt-out, many trust Mozilla and so would usually let it collect data like this.
  - bhauer 10y ago
    A good point. If there were one major organization that I feel comfortable sending telemetry data to, it may be Mozilla—the only organization that makes respect for their user's privacy a paramount concern. (I more or less instinctively opt out of data collection and have never enabled it in Firefox.) Still, the self selection bias is a curiosity.
    - Manishearth 10y ago
      Even if you don't trust Mozilla, the list of things Firefox collects as telemetry on release is extremely limited. (You will have to trust that the binary you downloaded is built from source though, but you can build yourself and/or turn the pref off of you care that much).

dblohm7 10y ago

See the Firefox Privacy Notice [1]. This kind of data is part of the "Firefox Health Report," which is opt-out. [1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/ https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/

chei0iaV 10y ago

You can see the actual data if you go to Menu > Help > Firefox Health Report, click Raw Data and select a date.