4 ms·

>wow, really, all of them? If all of them would do it, we wouldn't have this discussion now. Small amount, obviously, tries to make better stuff. >tell me mor

by mapcars 10y ago

>wow, really, all of them? If all of them would do it, we wouldn't have this discussion now. Small amount, obviously, tries to make better stuff. >tell me more! First go and check out plan9, genera, smalltalk and rebol.

keymone 10y ago
> Small amount, obviously, tries to make better stuff. interesting! but how small? like maybe as small as amount of early lispers working on making better language? would that be a valid comparison? > plan9, genera, smalltalk and rebol done.
- mapcars 10y ago
  >but how small? No idea, I keep discovering stuff from past 30 years which I never even heard about, I can't imagine how many new technologies appear in our time. >done. So, do you find things programmers are using in their daily work good?
  - keymone 10y ago
    > So, do you find things programmers are using in their daily work good? i find programmers using full spectrum from horrible to amazing. the reasons some people stay on lower end of that spectrum range from psychological to business constraints. i think more interesting question is why is it that while considering yourself being somewhere in the upper end of the spectrum you decide to shit on lisp, which arguably is the starting point of everything you deem good.
    - mapcars 10y ago
      >you decide to shit on lisp I don't shit on lisp, I've been for lisp since I discovered it many years ago. I'm against new worthless implementations presenting lisp as language only capable to parasite on other platforms, without having it's own real thing. To me lisp is an idea, which ironically found it's best implementation (from what I've seen so far) in Rebol.
      - keymone 10y ago
        > I'm against new worthless implementations could it be you haven't yet realized it's actually not worthless? > only capable to parasite on other platforms would you elaborate what exactly makes clojure a parasite on jvm?
        mapcars 10y ago
        >could it be you haven't yet realized it's actually not worthless? could be, I didn't even run it, but the problem is your implementation limited by underlying platform and if it wasn't made with lisp in mind (and this is the case) result will have tons of limitations. >would you elaborate what exactly makes clojure a parasite on jvm? Maybe it's ok for JVM, but I can tell you what makes it less lisp (and the reason is parasitism): absence of tail recursion.
        keymone 10y ago
        > tons of limitations but that would only matter if those limitations outweighed the advantages of developing with lisp? > absence of tail recursion so from "clojure is worthless parasite on jvm" we're down to "clojure is a lisp which i haven't tried yet but it's on jvm so i think it lacks tail recursion" good enough, peace.
        mapcars 10y ago
        >but that would only matter if those limitations outweighed the advantages of developing with lisp? Yes, and I doubt this Zygomys can reload code in runtime because of limitations of it's platform. >so from "clojure is worthless parasite on jvm" we're down to "clojure is a lisp which i haven't tried yet but it's on jvm so i think it lacks tail recursion" Nope, I wasn't talking about clojure.

by mapcars 10y ago

keymone 10y ago

> Small amount, obviously, tries to make better stuff. interesting! but how small? like maybe as small as amount of early lispers working on making better language? would that be a valid comparison? > plan9, genera, smalltalk and rebol done.

mapcars 10y ago
>but how small? No idea, I keep discovering stuff from past 30 years which I never even heard about, I can't imagine how many new technologies appear in our time. >done. So, do you find things programmers are using in their daily work good?
- keymone 10y ago
  > So, do you find things programmers are using in their daily work good? i find programmers using full spectrum from horrible to amazing. the reasons some people stay on lower end of that spectrum range from psychological to business constraints. i think more interesting question is why is it that while considering yourself being somewhere in the upper end of the spectrum you decide to shit on lisp, which arguably is the starting point of everything you deem good.
  - mapcars 10y ago
    >you decide to shit on lisp I don't shit on lisp, I've been for lisp since I discovered it many years ago. I'm against new worthless implementations presenting lisp as language only capable to parasite on other platforms, without having it's own real thing. To me lisp is an idea, which ironically found it's best implementation (from what I've seen so far) in Rebol.
    - keymone 10y ago
      > I'm against new worthless implementations could it be you haven't yet realized it's actually not worthless? > only capable to parasite on other platforms would you elaborate what exactly makes clojure a parasite on jvm?
      - mapcars 10y ago
        >could it be you haven't yet realized it's actually not worthless? could be, I didn't even run it, but the problem is your implementation limited by underlying platform and if it wasn't made with lisp in mind (and this is the case) result will have tons of limitations. >would you elaborate what exactly makes clojure a parasite on jvm? Maybe it's ok for JVM, but I can tell you what makes it less lisp (and the reason is parasitism): absence of tail recursion.
        keymone 10y ago
        > tons of limitations but that would only matter if those limitations outweighed the advantages of developing with lisp? > absence of tail recursion so from "clojure is worthless parasite on jvm" we're down to "clojure is a lisp which i haven't tried yet but it's on jvm so i think it lacks tail recursion" good enough, peace.
        mapcars 10y ago
        >but that would only matter if those limitations outweighed the advantages of developing with lisp? Yes, and I doubt this Zygomys can reload code in runtime because of limitations of it's platform. >so from "clojure is worthless parasite on jvm" we're down to "clojure is a lisp which i haven't tried yet but it's on jvm so i think it lacks tail recursion" Nope, I wasn't talking about clojure.