5 ms·

If this electric car has an interior that is on par with, or better than, the low end BMW/Audi/Merc models (3series/A4/C) then I am very, very interested. Sett

by rsync 10y ago

If this electric car has an interior that is on par with, or better than, the low end BMW/Audi/Merc models (3series/A4/C) then I am very, very interested. Setting aside the design aesthetic of the tesla, which is minimal and modern, the actual quality and finish of the tesla is stupefying. It's unbelievably bad. I sat in a mazda recently that was much better by every measure.

dave1619 10y ago
I think it's probably more just taste. There are plenty of folks who prefer the Tesla interior to BMW/Mercedes/Audi, including myself.
erik_landerholm 10y ago
Yeah, it's obvious the money did not go into the interior. The fit and finish isn't up to par with other high end manufacturers...yet. It also doesn't handle nearly as well as a comparably priced M5 vs p85d, for example. But, most people are buying the Tesla for completely different reasons.
- semi-extrinsic 10y ago
  > also doesn't handle nearly as well as a comparably priced M5 vs p85d, for example M5: 4288 lbs, 550 bhp, 400 mm six-piston fixed-caliper compound disc brakes, custom Bavarian elastokinematic suspension honed on German race tracks for decades. P85D: 4936 lbs, 557 bhp, 355 mm four-piston fixed-calliper regular disc brakes, standard suspension setup you find in a Ford Crown Victoria. It's not a surprise that a heavier car with the same power and significantly worse brakes and suspension handles significantly worse. But as you say, no-one is buying a Model S to go play on racetracks. Especially since we know it can't do a full lap of the Nürburgring Nordschliefe without overheating and reducing power output.
  - aedron 10y ago
    When people talk about handling in these contexts, I always wonder what they mean. Unless you take your car to the track, all your driving is either on residential roads, where you obviously (hopefully) won't be going fast, or on freeways, which are just long stretches of straightforward road. I've been a driver for twenty years and I have never felt like I cared about 'handling'. When car reviewers talk about it I always picture a 45 year old man-child white-knuckling the wheel at the local intersection while revving his 325i, eyes darting between soccer moms and pensioners in the cars around him and imagining himself to be Ayrton Senna. Though that is probably uncharitable :) I have owned many different cars between a top-end BMW and a beater Hyundai. The BMW is certainly a more enjoyable ride, but 'handling' was never a concern, except perhaps in a very occasional circumstance that might have gotten me arrested.
    - adbachman 10y ago
      Listen, I'm no track day enthusiast, but that is pretty uncharitable. At worst, "handling" is the difference between a car that's fun to drive and one that bores me. At best, it's the difference between smashing into the truck that stops suddenly at highway speeds and making it onto the shoulder. I drive a small family car and I know that with worse handling we'd all have been to the hospital at least twice.
    - Theodores 10y ago
      Interesting - you state that you really do not need handling because you are either driving slowly on residential roads or you are driving on 'freeways' that are built properly and therefore do not need cars with this mystery 'handling' ingredient. This is true, and the U.S. road network evolved this way, with cars evolving to suit the 'freeway' or the little road to get to the 'freeway'. In Europe we have an entirely different type of road network, ours does have fast motorways and dual carriageways where 'handling is not needed'. However, the bulk of the network is the older type of network where this handling thing does matter. In fact, we kind of chuckle with embarrassment at the sight of U.S. cars and their crude engineering. In a narrow country lane when the 325i meets the U.S. soccer-mom lard-mobile, you know that the guy in the 325i will be the one flicking into reverse and backing up to a passing point.
    - 10y ago
- deleted 10y ago
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function_seven 10y ago
> the actual quality and finish of the tesla is stupefying. It's unbelievably bad. I sat in a mazda recently that was much better by every measure. I’ve yet to see one up close in person. When you rag on the interior fit and finish, are you talking about things like the quality of plastics used, gaps between panels, tactile feel of buttons, and so on? In other words, I’m assuming your complaint isn’t purely an aesthetic one (“I don’t like how it looks”), but rather an objective criticism on materials and engineering. Here’s a litmus test: How’s the stitching on door panels and seats?
- ddalex 10y ago
  Never rode in one, but seen one in a Tesla shop - I was shocked at the low-quality plastic in the panels. Also, I don't think they use Italian leather and there is no good quality ebony wood to be found in it.
  - hellweaver666 10y ago
    Why would you want wood in a car? It's heavy and a pain in the ass to manufacture. Also... it's the 21st century and Tesla aren't trying to compete with Bentley.
    - ddalex 10y ago
      But these are not cheap cars. They are not competing with Toyotas, they are in the same price range as BMW Series 7 and Mercedes S-Class, executive-type limousine. So they need to be in the same range as the interior comfort. People are happy paying now limousine-class prices for £20-30,000 range quality and comfort, just because of the novelty and image that a Tesla projects. But how much longer can they sell in the image without reinforcing the image with the styling, comfort and quality that is to be expected of a £60,000 car ?
      - ericd 10y ago
        Maybe some people are happy trading nice leather and wood for a much better engine.
crooked-v 10y ago
> It's unbelievably bad. I'd be curious to hear some more detailed thoughts about what you think stands out in this regard.
- archon810 10y ago
  Everything creaks and rattles, the windows squeak when you roll them with any sort of moisture present, the speaker bass farts and rattles the interior, there is noise from inside the front axel that requires periodic maintenance (look it up on Tesla forums), etc. etc. No comparison to Mercedes, for example. But the drive is amazing, so in the end, it's all worth it. Tesla should really concentrate on the interior because it nailed the drive itself.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    Huh, my early Model S doesn't have any of these problems.
Matthias247 10y ago
If I get the last picture of the article right the car would size-wise compare more to the middle class cars you mentioned than to S-class or 7 series. So that comparison seems not too bad. However if the price point is above 100k then most people won't have really to decide between an A4 and this Lucid. Although a C63 and M3 are also considerably more expensive, so this will most likely also find it's customers.
flexie 10y ago
Whenever I sit (on the passenger seat) in an S class or a 7 Series I find the interior so outdated. Wooden panels, leather, chrome, sometimes even gilded. It's too bling bling for me. That style is more suitable for the Queen's carriage than for my ride. On the other hand, the tech side of an S Class or a 7 Series is too underwhelming. The style of German luxury cars is really a question of acquired taste. For many of us, plastic does just fine.
- ollie87 10y ago
  You don't have to have the leather and chrome, it's usually an option.
- StRoy 10y ago
  > For many of us, plastic does just fine. Probably not that many of you actually. When given the choices between more "noble" materials versus plastic at close prices, the market always sides so heavily against plastic that the competing product dies unless it sells for a LOT cheaper than the one with noble materials. For eg: iPhone 5c vs classic iPhone 5. You can't sell a plastic phone for the price of an iPhone. Plastic is synonymous with cheap and if it's not cheap then no one is buying it. For the same reason Tesla cars make a lot of people cringe at the price tags asked.
- stillworks 10y ago
  > On the other hand, the tech side of an S Class or a 7 Series is too underwhelming I hope by that you meant they are using engines which run on overprocessed dinosaurs ? Besides that, I guess techwise both the S Class and 7 series have more than anyone would want. For eg the S Class (or maybe the 7 or both) has had steering correction for crosswinds for a couple of years now ! Besides other things like night vision, automatic breaking etc etc They are not self driving for sure but I believe many S Class or 7 series owners/leas holders don't drive themselves. They pay someone else to drive them around most of the times.
  - BoorishBears 10y ago
    The S Class also has very basic "autopilot" that's been getting more advanced for years now (not sure about the 7) The 7 can detect and compensate for a flat tire during driving. I think the parent post was confusing multimedia with technology. And honestly the hardware for multimedia in Teslas is already outdated. Tesla is updating their platform at a much higher cadence than most cars, but they still haven't escaped the impedance mismatch between multimedia hardware which gets outdated in a year, and cars, which are outdated over much longer periods. That's why to me a high quality BT or well placed wired input is all that matters
ZeroGravitas 10y ago
I'm torn on this. On the one hand, it's cool that Tesla have made electric cars appealing to the high-end market, because that's the only market that can really afford them at the moment, which lets them bootstrap and iterate downmarket to achieve their stated goal of helping the world transition to carbon free power. But I hope they don't get too caught up in high-end details like fancy leathers, because unlike the cost of the battery, those aren't on a steady downward trajectory, and therefore distract from making a mass market car.
nikofeyn 10y ago
> Setting aside the design aesthetic of the tesla, which is minimal and modern, the actual quality and finish of the tesla is stupefying. It's unbelievably bad. i agree completely. i have mentioned this to people, but i get weird looks from people awed by tesla. i have sat in one and even rode along a friend's test ride. the door handle jiggles. when the door closes, it doesn't have that firm "i'm a car door, and i just closed" feel and sound. the leather isn't that great and the seat backs and trim is sort of tacky. there's a lot of plastic pieces that jiggle around. my kia optima sxl is finished much, much better than any tesla i have sat in. i have asked the question: can tesla really beat in just a few years some of these other car manufacturers who have been making cars and iterating on designs for decades in quality and robustness? i think the answer is that, no they haven't, but people are continually wooed by thinking tesla is the greatest car because it's electric and has a gigantic screen. (i for one feel like the screen is poorly designed with respect to how it's mounted. it looks like someone just tacked on a giant monitor to a dash.)
kayoone 10y ago
I am german and have seen a lot of Audis, BMWs on the inside and recently had a test drive with a Model S because i contemplated getting one, but the interior quality at that price point is kind of a deal breaker, even though the electric drive is amazing. I don't even like the giant touchscreen too much, i think it does not work very well in a car, the knobs and buttons in in combination with touch screens in the german brands work better imo. In general if you compare the Tesla to a new Audi Q7/A4/A5/TT-S with their Virtual Cockpit and overall interior quality, the Tesla feels downright cheap, more like a Hyundai/Mazda than any of the german high end brands. Parts of the Tesla i love, but for this amount of money i'd still rather get something else.

by rsync 10y ago

dave1619 10y ago

I think it's probably more just taste. There are plenty of folks who prefer the Tesla interior to BMW/Mercedes/Audi, including myself.

erik_landerholm 10y ago

Yeah, it's obvious the money did not go into the interior. The fit and finish isn't up to par with other high end manufacturers...yet. It also doesn't handle nearly as well as a comparably priced M5 vs p85d, for example. But, most people are buying the Tesla for completely different reasons.

semi-extrinsic 10y ago
> also doesn't handle nearly as well as a comparably priced M5 vs p85d, for example M5: 4288 lbs, 550 bhp, 400 mm six-piston fixed-caliper compound disc brakes, custom Bavarian elastokinematic suspension honed on German race tracks for decades. P85D: 4936 lbs, 557 bhp, 355 mm four-piston fixed-calliper regular disc brakes, standard suspension setup you find in a Ford Crown Victoria. It's not a surprise that a heavier car with the same power and significantly worse brakes and suspension handles significantly worse. But as you say, no-one is buying a Model S to go play on racetracks. Especially since we know it can't do a full lap of the Nürburgring Nordschliefe without overheating and reducing power output.
- aedron 10y ago
  When people talk about handling in these contexts, I always wonder what they mean. Unless you take your car to the track, all your driving is either on residential roads, where you obviously (hopefully) won't be going fast, or on freeways, which are just long stretches of straightforward road. I've been a driver for twenty years and I have never felt like I cared about 'handling'. When car reviewers talk about it I always picture a 45 year old man-child white-knuckling the wheel at the local intersection while revving his 325i, eyes darting between soccer moms and pensioners in the cars around him and imagining himself to be Ayrton Senna. Though that is probably uncharitable :) I have owned many different cars between a top-end BMW and a beater Hyundai. The BMW is certainly a more enjoyable ride, but 'handling' was never a concern, except perhaps in a very occasional circumstance that might have gotten me arrested.
  - adbachman 10y ago
    Listen, I'm no track day enthusiast, but that is pretty uncharitable. At worst, "handling" is the difference between a car that's fun to drive and one that bores me. At best, it's the difference between smashing into the truck that stops suddenly at highway speeds and making it onto the shoulder. I drive a small family car and I know that with worse handling we'd all have been to the hospital at least twice.
  - Theodores 10y ago
    Interesting - you state that you really do not need handling because you are either driving slowly on residential roads or you are driving on 'freeways' that are built properly and therefore do not need cars with this mystery 'handling' ingredient. This is true, and the U.S. road network evolved this way, with cars evolving to suit the 'freeway' or the little road to get to the 'freeway'. In Europe we have an entirely different type of road network, ours does have fast motorways and dual carriageways where 'handling is not needed'. However, the bulk of the network is the older type of network where this handling thing does matter. In fact, we kind of chuckle with embarrassment at the sight of U.S. cars and their crude engineering. In a narrow country lane when the 325i meets the U.S. soccer-mom lard-mobile, you know that the guy in the 325i will be the one flicking into reverse and backing up to a passing point.
  - 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

function_seven 10y ago

> the actual quality and finish of the tesla is stupefying. It's unbelievably bad. I sat in a mazda recently that was much better by every measure. I’ve yet to see one up close in person. When you rag on the interior fit and finish, are you talking about things like the quality of plastics used, gaps between panels, tactile feel of buttons, and so on? In other words, I’m assuming your complaint isn’t purely an aesthetic one (“I don’t like how it looks”), but rather an objective criticism on materials and engineering. Here’s a litmus test: How’s the stitching on door panels and seats?

ddalex 10y ago
Never rode in one, but seen one in a Tesla shop - I was shocked at the low-quality plastic in the panels. Also, I don't think they use Italian leather and there is no good quality ebony wood to be found in it.
- hellweaver666 10y ago
  Why would you want wood in a car? It's heavy and a pain in the ass to manufacture. Also... it's the 21st century and Tesla aren't trying to compete with Bentley.
  - ddalex 10y ago
    But these are not cheap cars. They are not competing with Toyotas, they are in the same price range as BMW Series 7 and Mercedes S-Class, executive-type limousine. So they need to be in the same range as the interior comfort. People are happy paying now limousine-class prices for £20-30,000 range quality and comfort, just because of the novelty and image that a Tesla projects. But how much longer can they sell in the image without reinforcing the image with the styling, comfort and quality that is to be expected of a £60,000 car ?
    - ericd 10y ago
      Maybe some people are happy trading nice leather and wood for a much better engine.

crooked-v 10y ago

> It's unbelievably bad. I'd be curious to hear some more detailed thoughts about what you think stands out in this regard.

archon810 10y ago
Everything creaks and rattles, the windows squeak when you roll them with any sort of moisture present, the speaker bass farts and rattles the interior, there is noise from inside the front axel that requires periodic maintenance (look it up on Tesla forums), etc. etc. No comparison to Mercedes, for example. But the drive is amazing, so in the end, it's all worth it. Tesla should really concentrate on the interior because it nailed the drive itself.
- greglindahl 10y ago
  Huh, my early Model S doesn't have any of these problems.

Matthias247 10y ago

If I get the last picture of the article right the car would size-wise compare more to the middle class cars you mentioned than to S-class or 7 series. So that comparison seems not too bad. However if the price point is above 100k then most people won't have really to decide between an A4 and this Lucid. Although a C63 and M3 are also considerably more expensive, so this will most likely also find it's customers.

flexie 10y ago

Whenever I sit (on the passenger seat) in an S class or a 7 Series I find the interior so outdated. Wooden panels, leather, chrome, sometimes even gilded. It's too bling bling for me. That style is more suitable for the Queen's carriage than for my ride. On the other hand, the tech side of an S Class or a 7 Series is too underwhelming. The style of German luxury cars is really a question of acquired taste. For many of us, plastic does just fine.

ollie87 10y ago
You don't have to have the leather and chrome, it's usually an option.
StRoy 10y ago
> For many of us, plastic does just fine. Probably not that many of you actually. When given the choices between more "noble" materials versus plastic at close prices, the market always sides so heavily against plastic that the competing product dies unless it sells for a LOT cheaper than the one with noble materials. For eg: iPhone 5c vs classic iPhone 5. You can't sell a plastic phone for the price of an iPhone. Plastic is synonymous with cheap and if it's not cheap then no one is buying it. For the same reason Tesla cars make a lot of people cringe at the price tags asked.
stillworks 10y ago
> On the other hand, the tech side of an S Class or a 7 Series is too underwhelming I hope by that you meant they are using engines which run on overprocessed dinosaurs ? Besides that, I guess techwise both the S Class and 7 series have more than anyone would want. For eg the S Class (or maybe the 7 or both) has had steering correction for crosswinds for a couple of years now ! Besides other things like night vision, automatic breaking etc etc They are not self driving for sure but I believe many S Class or 7 series owners/leas holders don't drive themselves. They pay someone else to drive them around most of the times.
- BoorishBears 10y ago
  The S Class also has very basic "autopilot" that's been getting more advanced for years now (not sure about the 7) The 7 can detect and compensate for a flat tire during driving. I think the parent post was confusing multimedia with technology. And honestly the hardware for multimedia in Teslas is already outdated. Tesla is updating their platform at a much higher cadence than most cars, but they still haven't escaped the impedance mismatch between multimedia hardware which gets outdated in a year, and cars, which are outdated over much longer periods. That's why to me a high quality BT or well placed wired input is all that matters

ZeroGravitas 10y ago

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, it's cool that Tesla have made electric cars appealing to the high-end market, because that's the only market that can really afford them at the moment, which lets them bootstrap and iterate downmarket to achieve their stated goal of helping the world transition to carbon free power. But I hope they don't get too caught up in high-end details like fancy leathers, because unlike the cost of the battery, those aren't on a steady downward trajectory, and therefore distract from making a mass market car.

nikofeyn 10y ago

> Setting aside the design aesthetic of the tesla, which is minimal and modern, the actual quality and finish of the tesla is stupefying. It's unbelievably bad. i agree completely. i have mentioned this to people, but i get weird looks from people awed by tesla. i have sat in one and even rode along a friend's test ride. the door handle jiggles. when the door closes, it doesn't have that firm "i'm a car door, and i just closed" feel and sound. the leather isn't that great and the seat backs and trim is sort of tacky. there's a lot of plastic pieces that jiggle around. my kia optima sxl is finished much, much better than any tesla i have sat in. i have asked the question: can tesla really beat in just a few years some of these other car manufacturers who have been making cars and iterating on designs for decades in quality and robustness? i think the answer is that, no they haven't, but people are continually wooed by thinking tesla is the greatest car because it's electric and has a gigantic screen. (i for one feel like the screen is poorly designed with respect to how it's mounted. it looks like someone just tacked on a giant monitor to a dash.)

kayoone 10y ago

I am german and have seen a lot of Audis, BMWs on the inside and recently had a test drive with a Model S because i contemplated getting one, but the interior quality at that price point is kind of a deal breaker, even though the electric drive is amazing. I don't even like the giant touchscreen too much, i think it does not work very well in a car, the knobs and buttons in in combination with touch screens in the german brands work better imo. In general if you compare the Tesla to a new Audi Q7/A4/A5/TT-S with their Virtual Cockpit and overall interior quality, the Tesla feels downright cheap, more like a Hyundai/Mazda than any of the german high end brands. Parts of the Tesla i love, but for this amount of money i'd still rather get something else.