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Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn

Anything done excessively can be unhealthy, by definition, but there's only a grain of truth to what you're saying. To your point 1: done properly, running isn't particularly harmful to joints and tendons, and some studies even seem to show that running can be beneficial in that regard[1]. The rapid changes in direction that cause the most stress are less prevalent in running than just about any other sport, not even considering the impacts that can occur e.g. in contact sports. Injury rates are not particularly high in running compared to other sports, and even if that were so you should be careful about confusing correlation with causation. A lot of people get injured while running mostly because it's an incredibly popular form of exercise. Do you seriously think there would be fewer injuries e.g. among the same number of people playing rugby? To your point 3: I know a lot of weight-training addicts like to make that claim, but it's just not true for any reasonable definition of fitness. Running isn't particularly good for weight loss, but weight loss has little to do with fitness. Ditto for weight gain, even in the form of muscle. When it comes to the kind of fitness that actually matters - i.e. developing one's heart and lungs to prevent the chronic problems that kill millions every year - only a few kinds of exercise are better than running. Swimming, rowing, and cross-country skiing come to mind. There are probably a few more, but lifting weights is certainly not on the list. You personally don't like running? Fine. No exercise is ideal for everyone. But spreading FUD that discourages others from pursuing a healthy habit doesn't seem very constructive. P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative? [1] https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161209100236.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/12/161209100236.h...

hueving 10y ago
Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. >P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative? Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation.
- monkmartinez 10y ago
  I had 2 herniated discs (L4-L5, L5-S1) in 2014 due to swinging an axe over my head for an extended period of time on a large structure fire. I say that to say this; running is way better for my back than cycling. My left leg, mostly my foot, still haven't completely recovered from the nerve impingement, but I am running 30 to 40 miles a week with no problems (lots of trail running too, check my Strava :) ) I can't cycle like I used to on any "normal" bicycles. This position, bent at 90 degrees or more, that one is required to sit while cycling is actually pretty terrible for the lower back. Also, being male and being part of a large male dominated industry - firefighting, I see lots of male cancers. That is, testicular and prostate cancers. My department is participating in a massive testicular and prostate study; We are being asked to change our chonies often and wash hands before going to the bathroom as the scrotum is a sponge for anything it touches... smashing that region when cycling for extended periods of time seems like a bad idea (and it hurts).
  - discreteevent 10y ago
    Cycling can be bad for your back but it depends upon your position on the bike. I had problems with my lower back but I cycle regularly on a road bike and I haven't had any issues for a long time. One thing is that the lower handlebars on a road bike takes weight off the lower back and onto the shoulders and arms. It also makes you build up your core which is one of the main causes of back pain. Too low or too stretched out is not good. But if your position is right theres no problem.
  - VA3FXP 10y ago
    I beg you to consider recumbent bikes. I am an avid cyclist. I ride daily to work. (less so now that the roads are icy) I have had back surgery (L4/L5 is now fused). I went on a bike tour where I rode for 13+hrs a day for a month. At the end of the day the only thing sore was my muscles. I weigh almost 300lbs. A recumbent bike is a complete life changing, world altering, paradigm shifting, bundle of awesome. I beg you to look into it, or send me a PM if you have any questions.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      On topic: What's a recumbent bike like to ride on the street? I live in Baltimore, and while I've ridden a conventional bike successfully in daytime traffic, it's not something with which I can imagine ever being really comfortable. A recumbent bike, having the rider much lower to the ground, seems like it'd be even scarier - how have you found it? Or do you ride on roads where it's not a problem? Platform note: Hacker News doesn't support PMs, so you'll want to include in your profile an email address, or some other means of contact outside HN itself, in order to make out-of-band conversations possible. Welcome! We're glad to have you.
- sosborn 10y ago
  > Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. I was a competitive swimmer for a large portion of life. My back hated me for it. Running has been nothing but good to me.
  - dmpk2k 10y ago
    Competitive sportsmen of any stripe tend to have various injuries. Unless you're a competitive runner too, the two cannot be compared.
- JohnTHaller 10y ago
  Rowing should only be done with a very good coach. Source: Girlfriend has two bulging discs in her back due to a bad coach of her freshman year rowing team.
  - tempestn 10y ago
    I second this. I rowed semi-competitively for years in my teens and early twenties, and thought I had good form. I didn't learn until after herniating a disc that it's important to do most of the drive through the heels rather than the ball of the foot. Most people learn not to overreach at the catch, which is part of it, but you also have to focus on not just getting the heels down, but actually driving through them. (Much like squats, another thing I didn't learn to do properly (with weight on the heels) until after that injury.) Of course there's a bunch else to it - keeping the back straight and strong, etc. - this was just the thing that happened to be missing from my training, so might be for others as well.
  - douche 10y ago
    Doesn't surprise me. I had some friends in college, men and women, that rowed, and universally they were put through hellish, body-destroying workout regimens that the football team would have looked cross-eyed at. It still seems weird to me that rowing is a competitive sport. Rowing is something you do with a six-pack of beer in the cooler and a tacklebox and reel by your side, rather than as an end in itself. But I have decidedly plebeian tastes.
- notacoward 10y ago
  Good thing that's not all I wrote, then. Kudos for ignoring most of the rest to focus on that. As for the other part of your comment, when I mentioned swimming etc. in the context of overall benefit, not harm to joints. I've yet to see evidence that cycling is easier on the joints, and I've seen plenty that it's slightly below running in terms of aerobic benefit. Sure, an elite cyclist probably has a higher VO2max than I do, but if we compare apples to apples then we'd have to compare to an elite marathon runner and I don't think that comparison would look so good.
  - hueving 10y ago
    VO2max has nothing to do with joints. Your post is all over the place.
    - notacoward 10y ago
      No, my post is not all over the place. You're just not very good at reading. Effect on joints was the OP's point 1. Effect on fitness was point 3. Must I address those points in separate replies, even though they were made in one? That's absurd. Also, they're not completely unrelated and I've even drawn the lines between them. Talk of running's negatives should be balanced by consideration of its positives. Even if running is harmful to the joints, and already cited evidence suggests otherwise, that might still be outweighed by the aerobic benefits. More people die of heart attacks than of sore knees. I don't think it's unreasonable to counter unremittingly negative commentary with some mention of positives. Next time, try reading what others write, instead of cherry-picking one piece out of context to address in support of your biases.
      - hueving 10y ago
        >You're just not very good at reading. Now this is what this site is about. Unless you are intentionally trolling, I recommend you remove personal attacks from your discourse if you want to engage in any kind of intelligent conversation.
        10y ago
- throwanem 10y ago
  > Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation. And more downvotes.
cortesoft 10y ago
The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad, or that being fit isn't important. They simply were responding to the statement that they had never heard an argument that running could be bad. You really jumped to conclusions by assuming they were saying exercise is not valuable.
- Jtsummers 10y ago
  The problem is the OP said "against running regularly" and the responder said "excessive". Neither "regularly" nor "excessive" were well-defined. Regular could be anywhere from 2-3 times a week to daily. Excessive could be anywhere from daily to many times daily, and probably is more about time/distance run than frequency of runs (daily 1 mile runs would be hard to consider excessive, but daily marathons?). Defining our terms is critical in conversation (and something I probably need to work on as well).
- notacoward 10y ago
  > The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad I never said that they did. Who's jumping to conclusions now? The person I was responding to clearly has an axe to grind with running specifically, and the most likely reason is that they prefer something else. I see that a lot from lifters and cyclists especially. For some reason they feel a need to explain why their choice is as good as running, which is in itself interesting. I don't see swimmers (for example) who feel compelled to explain why their choice is as good as running. Nor do I see anyone trying to impugn exercise in general (because that would be stupid). I don't know what sport/exercise that person prefers, though, because they didn't say. It would have been nice if they had, to balance out the relentless negativity. When one casually equates "regularly" with "excessive" and then lists only negatives, it implies an overall negative. Identifying a basis for comparison might have been enlightening instead of offensive.
FrancoDiaz 10y ago
I've been running for years and enjoy running, but everything he said is pretty much true...well, the boring part for me is obviously not true. #2 (elevated cortisol levels) is a huge problem that is rarely discussed though. I'm still trying to figure that one out.
- JulianMorrison 10y ago
  Try ashwagandha, it has some evidence of lowering cortisol.
- notacoward 10y ago
  So 1/3 is "everything" to you? Also, elevated cortisol levels are associated with any exercise done to excess. Why single out running? Why focus on the negative? Running might not be the best possible exercise, there might be others that are even better, but it's highly accessible and running is overall better than not doing anything. That's totally lost in all the FUD the OP was slinging.

hueving 10y ago

Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. >P.S. Instead of getting your friends to downvote, how about suggesting an actually-healthy alternative? Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation.

monkmartinez 10y ago
I had 2 herniated discs (L4-L5, L5-S1) in 2014 due to swinging an axe over my head for an extended period of time on a large structure fire. I say that to say this; running is way better for my back than cycling. My left leg, mostly my foot, still haven't completely recovered from the nerve impingement, but I am running 30 to 40 miles a week with no problems (lots of trail running too, check my Strava :) ) I can't cycle like I used to on any "normal" bicycles. This position, bent at 90 degrees or more, that one is required to sit while cycling is actually pretty terrible for the lower back. Also, being male and being part of a large male dominated industry - firefighting, I see lots of male cancers. That is, testicular and prostate cancers. My department is participating in a massive testicular and prostate study; We are being asked to change our chonies often and wash hands before going to the bathroom as the scrotum is a sponge for anything it touches... smashing that region when cycling for extended periods of time seems like a bad idea (and it hurts).
- discreteevent 10y ago
  Cycling can be bad for your back but it depends upon your position on the bike. I had problems with my lower back but I cycle regularly on a road bike and I haven't had any issues for a long time. One thing is that the lower handlebars on a road bike takes weight off the lower back and onto the shoulders and arms. It also makes you build up your core which is one of the main causes of back pain. Too low or too stretched out is not good. But if your position is right theres no problem.
- VA3FXP 10y ago
  I beg you to consider recumbent bikes. I am an avid cyclist. I ride daily to work. (less so now that the roads are icy) I have had back surgery (L4/L5 is now fused). I went on a bike tour where I rode for 13+hrs a day for a month. At the end of the day the only thing sore was my muscles. I weigh almost 300lbs. A recumbent bike is a complete life changing, world altering, paradigm shifting, bundle of awesome. I beg you to look into it, or send me a PM if you have any questions.
  - throwanem 10y ago
    On topic: What's a recumbent bike like to ride on the street? I live in Baltimore, and while I've ridden a conventional bike successfully in daytime traffic, it's not something with which I can imagine ever being really comfortable. A recumbent bike, having the rider much lower to the ground, seems like it'd be even scarier - how have you found it? Or do you ride on roads where it's not a problem? Platform note: Hacker News doesn't support PMs, so you'll want to include in your profile an email address, or some other means of contact outside HN itself, in order to make out-of-band conversations possible. Welcome! We're glad to have you.
sosborn 10y ago
> Biking, swimming, and rowing are all better on the joints than the impact from running. I was a competitive swimmer for a large portion of life. My back hated me for it. Running has been nothing but good to me.
- dmpk2k 10y ago
  Competitive sportsmen of any stripe tend to have various injuries. Unless you're a competitive runner too, the two cannot be compared.
JohnTHaller 10y ago
Rowing should only be done with a very good coach. Source: Girlfriend has two bulging discs in her back due to a bad coach of her freshman year rowing team.
- tempestn 10y ago
  I second this. I rowed semi-competitively for years in my teens and early twenties, and thought I had good form. I didn't learn until after herniating a disc that it's important to do most of the drive through the heels rather than the ball of the foot. Most people learn not to overreach at the catch, which is part of it, but you also have to focus on not just getting the heels down, but actually driving through them. (Much like squats, another thing I didn't learn to do properly (with weight on the heels) until after that injury.) Of course there's a bunch else to it - keeping the back straight and strong, etc. - this was just the thing that happened to be missing from my training, so might be for others as well.
- douche 10y ago
  Doesn't surprise me. I had some friends in college, men and women, that rowed, and universally they were put through hellish, body-destroying workout regimens that the football team would have looked cross-eyed at. It still seems weird to me that rowing is a competitive sport. Rowing is something you do with a six-pack of beer in the cooler and a tacklebox and reel by your side, rather than as an end in itself. But I have decidedly plebeian tastes.
notacoward 10y ago
Good thing that's not all I wrote, then. Kudos for ignoring most of the rest to focus on that. As for the other part of your comment, when I mentioned swimming etc. in the context of overall benefit, not harm to joints. I've yet to see evidence that cycling is easier on the joints, and I've seen plenty that it's slightly below running in terms of aerobic benefit. Sure, an elite cyclist probably has a higher VO2max than I do, but if we compare apples to apples then we'd have to compare to an elite marathon runner and I don't think that comparison would look so good.
- hueving 10y ago
  VO2max has nothing to do with joints. Your post is all over the place.
  - notacoward 10y ago
    No, my post is not all over the place. You're just not very good at reading. Effect on joints was the OP's point 1. Effect on fitness was point 3. Must I address those points in separate replies, even though they were made in one? That's absurd. Also, they're not completely unrelated and I've even drawn the lines between them. Talk of running's negatives should be balanced by consideration of its positives. Even if running is harmful to the joints, and already cited evidence suggests otherwise, that might still be outweighed by the aerobic benefits. More people die of heart attacks than of sore knees. I don't think it's unreasonable to counter unremittingly negative commentary with some mention of positives. Next time, try reading what others write, instead of cherry-picking one piece out of context to address in support of your biases.
    - hueving 10y ago
      >You're just not very good at reading. Now this is what this site is about. Unless you are intentionally trolling, I recommend you remove personal attacks from your discourse if you want to engage in any kind of intelligent conversation.
      - 10y ago
throwanem 10y ago
> Don't complain about downvotes, it makes for boring conversation. And more downvotes.

cortesoft 10y ago

The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad, or that being fit isn't important. They simply were responding to the statement that they had never heard an argument that running could be bad. You really jumped to conclusions by assuming they were saying exercise is not valuable.

Jtsummers 10y ago
The problem is the OP said "against running regularly" and the responder said "excessive". Neither "regularly" nor "excessive" were well-defined. Regular could be anywhere from 2-3 times a week to daily. Excessive could be anywhere from daily to many times daily, and probably is more about time/distance run than frequency of runs (daily 1 mile runs would be hard to consider excessive, but daily marathons?). Defining our terms is critical in conversation (and something I probably need to work on as well).
notacoward 10y ago
> The person you responded to never said that exercise is bad I never said that they did. Who's jumping to conclusions now? The person I was responding to clearly has an axe to grind with running specifically, and the most likely reason is that they prefer something else. I see that a lot from lifters and cyclists especially. For some reason they feel a need to explain why their choice is as good as running, which is in itself interesting. I don't see swimmers (for example) who feel compelled to explain why their choice is as good as running. Nor do I see anyone trying to impugn exercise in general (because that would be stupid). I don't know what sport/exercise that person prefers, though, because they didn't say. It would have been nice if they had, to balance out the relentless negativity. When one casually equates "regularly" with "excessive" and then lists only negatives, it implies an overall negative. Identifying a basis for comparison might have been enlightening instead of offensive.

FrancoDiaz 10y ago

I've been running for years and enjoy running, but everything he said is pretty much true...well, the boring part for me is obviously not true. #2 (elevated cortisol levels) is a huge problem that is rarely discussed though. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

JulianMorrison 10y ago
Try ashwagandha, it has some evidence of lowering cortisol.
notacoward 10y ago
So 1/3 is "everything" to you? Also, elevated cortisol levels are associated with any exercise done to excess. Why single out running? Why focus on the negative? Running might not be the best possible exercise, there might be others that are even better, but it's highly accessible and running is overall better than not doing anything. That's totally lost in all the FUD the OP was slinging.