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I'm not sure why Apple gets so much hate for this. I can think of at least 3 other companies that do exactly the same thing and have done for years: - Microso

I'm not sure why Apple gets so much hate for this. I can think of at least 3 other companies that do exactly the same thing and have done for years: - Microsoft - Xbox and Xbox360 - Sony - PS1, PS2, PS3, and PSP - Nintendo - NES, SNES, GC, Wii, DS Why should Apple be treated any differently than any game console manufacturer? Every one of those game console manufacturers void your warranty if you mod them. Every one of them restricts which development tools you can use to develop on them, and has very stringent application approval processes. Why is it that Apple all of a sudden deserves special anti-trust attention? Is it because they developed a game console that also happens to be a phone? Or maybe it's because they developed the first phone that doesn't suck.

scott_s 17y ago
Modding a console requires physically changing the hardware. I think it's reasonable to void the warranty if there's a good chance the customer accidentally broke it while trying to physically change its function. The situation with the iPhone/iPad is different because it's just a wipe of the software; no physical modding.
- illumin8 17y ago
  Not true. There are many software only mods for consoles available.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    And do these software mods also void the warranty? I know you're no longer allowed to use such things as XBox Live (which I think is a legitimate way to prevent cheating).
    - illumin8 17y ago
      Yes.
      - krschultz 17y ago
        If you were able to backup the harddrive image, mod it with software, and then replace the harddrive image, you can still bring it in for warranty repairs. How would they know? But if you cut open the case, that is a whole different story.
        illumin8 17y ago
        They have one of those tamper seals over the case screws, so just by opening the case to your Xbox you are voiding your warranty. The way I understand it is this: Softmodding might not void your warranty, but it might as well, because if your hardware ever breaks and needs repair, you're not going to be able to "put it back the way it was" before taking it into the shop. So, you take it in, they fix your Xbox, boot it, see a hacked dashboard, and say "you modded it so we're going to bill you for the repair."
      - scott_s 17y ago
        Do you have a source?
poppysan 17y ago
You're arguing a different point. If modifying is allowed, then they cant restrict the parts by voiding the warranty. If modifying isn't allowed, then it isn't allowed regardless of any brand of parts.
- illumin8 17y ago
  In a software ecosystem, you could say new software and firmware are "parts."
  - krschultz 17y ago
    Absolutely not, anyone who has actually soldered a modchip to a motherboard knows it can be an extremely damaging process. That is vastly different from replacing software. I've bricked an Xbox by screwing up the soldering back in the days of 28 wire chips, and I've bricked a Linux device I was involved in the design of by wiping the bootloader that was needed. The Xbox got thrown in the trash, by using the right set of tools we saved the device bricked by software by reflashing it. You can always fix software mistakes by going low enough. You can't always fix hardware mistakes.
    - illumin8 17y ago
      I've bricked hardware devices by flashing them with a bad ROM BIOS. I've bricked PC motherboards by having a flash fail halfway through. I've overclocked graphics cards by loading custom firmware on them, which caused permanent damage due to overheating. Software mistakes cannot always be fixed. I love modding my computers, consoles, smartphones, and various electronic devices, but I do so full well knowing that if I fuck up, it's my fault and not Apple's. Sure, an iPhone is usually recoverable, but if for some reason it isn't, I take full responsibility and don't expect Apple to provide me with another guinea pig free of charge.
      - lutorm 17y ago
        I agree with you. Of course it's not about Apple giving you a new phone if you fuck it up. It's about if something entirely unrelated to what you did fails and warranty is still denied based on the modification (ie headphone jack stops working on your jailbroken iphone).
psyklic 17y ago
True -- BUT MS/Sony/Nintendo allow developers to use cross-platform libraries. And better yet, this policy does not bar them from releasing high-quality products, regardless of what Jobs would have you believe.
krschultz 17y ago
I've seen this analogy before and it is completely nonsensical. If Microsoft and Sony were like Apple, you wouldn't have titles like Call of Duty on both platforms. Everything would have to have been created originally for one console, and one console only. Otherwise it wouldn't have been "originally" created for it. Is that what we see in the console world? Of course not. Sometimes the console makers compete for exclusives, but they are exclusive because the company writing the game is doing it that way, not because the console makers are forcing them to. Apple specifically tries to prevent that kind of cross platform thing from happening on the iPhone.
- czhiddy 17y ago
  Apps like Mint and Facebook exist across the various mobile platforms (namely Android + iPhone). Apple doesn't seem to ban apps that are cross-platform as long as they're written with native APIs. Now imagine if you took Call of Duty on PS3, and did a hacky port where you stubbed DirectX code for the PSGL calls, and used some common denominator between PS3's online service and XBox Live. I'd highly doubt Microsoft would let this go to market, given how poorly it'd perform. Now imagine if these ports were all automated by a third party layer. In fact, I'm curious to see how many successful games out there use something like Unity to allow PS3/XBox/Wii ports without any code changes.

scott_s 17y ago

Modding a console requires physically changing the hardware. I think it's reasonable to void the warranty if there's a good chance the customer accidentally broke it while trying to physically change its function. The situation with the iPhone/iPad is different because it's just a wipe of the software; no physical modding.

illumin8 17y ago
Not true. There are many software only mods for consoles available.
- scott_s 17y ago
  And do these software mods also void the warranty? I know you're no longer allowed to use such things as XBox Live (which I think is a legitimate way to prevent cheating).
  - illumin8 17y ago
    Yes.
    - krschultz 17y ago
      If you were able to backup the harddrive image, mod it with software, and then replace the harddrive image, you can still bring it in for warranty repairs. How would they know? But if you cut open the case, that is a whole different story.
      - illumin8 17y ago
        They have one of those tamper seals over the case screws, so just by opening the case to your Xbox you are voiding your warranty. The way I understand it is this: Softmodding might not void your warranty, but it might as well, because if your hardware ever breaks and needs repair, you're not going to be able to "put it back the way it was" before taking it into the shop. So, you take it in, they fix your Xbox, boot it, see a hacked dashboard, and say "you modded it so we're going to bill you for the repair."
    - scott_s 17y ago
      Do you have a source?

poppysan 17y ago

You're arguing a different point. If modifying is allowed, then they cant restrict the parts by voiding the warranty. If modifying isn't allowed, then it isn't allowed regardless of any brand of parts.

illumin8 17y ago
In a software ecosystem, you could say new software and firmware are "parts."
- krschultz 17y ago
  Absolutely not, anyone who has actually soldered a modchip to a motherboard knows it can be an extremely damaging process. That is vastly different from replacing software. I've bricked an Xbox by screwing up the soldering back in the days of 28 wire chips, and I've bricked a Linux device I was involved in the design of by wiping the bootloader that was needed. The Xbox got thrown in the trash, by using the right set of tools we saved the device bricked by software by reflashing it. You can always fix software mistakes by going low enough. You can't always fix hardware mistakes.
  - illumin8 17y ago
    I've bricked hardware devices by flashing them with a bad ROM BIOS. I've bricked PC motherboards by having a flash fail halfway through. I've overclocked graphics cards by loading custom firmware on them, which caused permanent damage due to overheating. Software mistakes cannot always be fixed. I love modding my computers, consoles, smartphones, and various electronic devices, but I do so full well knowing that if I fuck up, it's my fault and not Apple's. Sure, an iPhone is usually recoverable, but if for some reason it isn't, I take full responsibility and don't expect Apple to provide me with another guinea pig free of charge.
    - lutorm 17y ago
      I agree with you. Of course it's not about Apple giving you a new phone if you fuck it up. It's about if something entirely unrelated to what you did fails and warranty is still denied based on the modification (ie headphone jack stops working on your jailbroken iphone).

psyklic 17y ago

True -- BUT MS/Sony/Nintendo allow developers to use cross-platform libraries. And better yet, this policy does not bar them from releasing high-quality products, regardless of what Jobs would have you believe.

krschultz 17y ago

I've seen this analogy before and it is completely nonsensical. If Microsoft and Sony were like Apple, you wouldn't have titles like Call of Duty on both platforms. Everything would have to have been created originally for one console, and one console only. Otherwise it wouldn't have been "originally" created for it. Is that what we see in the console world? Of course not. Sometimes the console makers compete for exclusives, but they are exclusive because the company writing the game is doing it that way, not because the console makers are forcing them to. Apple specifically tries to prevent that kind of cross platform thing from happening on the iPhone.

czhiddy 17y ago
Apps like Mint and Facebook exist across the various mobile platforms (namely Android + iPhone). Apple doesn't seem to ban apps that are cross-platform as long as they're written with native APIs. Now imagine if you took Call of Duty on PS3, and did a hacky port where you stubbed DirectX code for the PSGL calls, and used some common denominator between PS3's online service and XBox Live. I'd highly doubt Microsoft would let this go to market, given how poorly it'd perform. Now imagine if these ports were all automated by a third party layer. In fact, I'm curious to see how many successful games out there use something like Unity to allow PS3/XBox/Wii ports without any code changes.