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When he said "mind work", I took it as the constant, 24 hour stress I experienced while living there. Which sometimes is completely unrelated to work. The insa

When he said "mind work", I took it as the constant, 24 hour stress I experienced while living there. Which sometimes is completely unrelated to work. The insane commutes, the work culture, the high rent / COL, the culture of trying to look as rich/smart/successful as possible, the sue happy people, the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work, etc really wore down on me. I lived in the south bay though... admittedly it seemed slightly better in SF. Less money grobbing and more hipsters. But it looks like all that is going out the window very quickly. The south bay culture is spreading like a cancer.

chrisper 10y ago
Yeah, same. I live in San Jose and feel 100% like you. I haven't even worked yet and only went to school here and I am already exhausted. This is why I chose not to live here after graduation.
- kLeeIsDead 10y ago
  The crazy part about it is it's just going to get worse and worse. I was born and raised in SJ... since the 80s this tech stuff has been slowly building on top of itself like some sort of tumor, and the city does absolutely nothing to stop the gentrification and overall shittyness of the money-money-money mindset from taking over. I'm 23 now, most of my friends and 100% of my parents friends (lived there since the 60s) have moved out because of the constant influx of migrant workaholics. It's given me a very cynical view on life. I really don't know where else to move, I feel like I need to leave the country as well, or at least leave California. Where are you going, if you don't mind me asking?
  - chrisper 10y ago
    I am moving (back) to Europe (Germany). I have a European Passport, so I don't have to worry about a visa, like I would have to if I decided to stay here.
    - kLeeIsDead 10y ago
      Ah, interesting. I'm German too. Unfortunately all my ties to Germany have been severed when my Oma died.
      - kayoone 10y ago
        Come to Berlin, the startup scene is great by european standards, the city is cheap and super diverse. Great food, great nightlife but cold winters ;)
  - iamcasen 10y ago
    I felt the same way after living in SF for 6 years. I moved up to Portland, though they probably find me to be an annoying migrant too :/
    - kLeeIsDead 10y ago
      FWIW, it's not the "migrant" part in itself that irritates me. It's the whole thing, "migrant workaholics". I hate the people who moved to my hometown for the sole reason to make money and go back to their home country, with no intention to integrate.
- jartelt 10y ago
  If you get exhausted by working a lot, it's probably best to not work at a small startup or a company that is growing super fast. There are larger (usually public) companies in the Bay Area where people can work 9-6 type jobs and be great at their jobs. It can be team dependent, but there are people who work totally normal hours at google, apple, linkedin, etc. There are a lot of other mature companies people work at as well. It's not as sexy to say you work for them, but they pay you a respectable salary and don't have to take over your life. That said, ANY job can take over your life if you let it, whether that job is in Portland, Austin, Chicago, or San Francisco (not that it is necessarily a bad thing to have your job be your life).
Bahamut 10y ago
Not everyone has the same experiences with the Bay Area - I live in the Valley and my commute is better than when I lived in DC (where even going < 2 miles to work took longer than it takes for me to go 7 miles by bus currently, even with direct routes in both cases), and I enjoy running/playing board games/hanging out with friends greatly. For me, it's mostly been great.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- eganist 10y ago
  Agreed though I'm coming from the opposite perspective. Despite the traffic, I'm willing to put up with it in DC because the caliber of people is entirely different and far superior to any experience I've had in SFBay.
astrange 10y ago
I've carefully cultivated non-tech friends in SF/South/East Bay, to the point where I actually need to meet more tech people now since I have no idea what work life is like at other companies. It's been worthwhile and we do plenty of stuff, but you have to be prepared to drive very long distances to see anyone. And many people who don't get into tech move away, so practically everyone is younger than me (and male) and can't afford the hipster restaurant visiting hobbies. Oh, but the commute here is really not that bad compared to other American cities that aren't "world tier" (LA, Atlanta, DC) because those cities refuse to build mass transit.
- eganist 10y ago
  > DC I'm assuming you've never paid us a visit :( DC literally has the second largest mass transit system in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_tr...
  - astrange 10y ago
    Sorry, meant the suburbs I guess. Some friends in the military and government definitely complain about how long it takes to drive a short distance. I've only ridden the Metro once, yeah.
    - eganist 10y ago
      I mean, I'm in the suburbs... Haha
  - madengr 10y ago
    Assuming they can keep it from catching on fire or de-railing. I'm happy to be out of NOVA/MD/DC.
    - wyclif 10y ago
      I lived in Vienna, VA for a while, so I'm pretty familiar with all the failings of WMATA. And there are many. But...and it's a big "but", if you've lived in any major non-coastal city in the US you might think that DC's Metrorail is at least a public rail system, which is better than many cities have. It's sad that in the US, you have to take what you can get, and the reasons why the US doesn't have good public transportation have been discussed here ad nauseum, so I won't even flog that dead horse again.
kobeya 10y ago
I've lived in the South Bay my whole life and have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. There are subcultures of workaholic stress magnets, but they are easily avoided. I work 40 hour weeks, have non-tech hobbies and weekends are sacred. Your experience may be typical of the crowd you hang with, but not the valley as a whole. I'm also mystified at the assertion that SF would be better in this respect. The conventional view is that SF is more status seeking and elitist while the South Bay neighborhoods are more laid back, or at least more diverse in their subgroup compositions. The cost of living is insane, yes, although astronomical tech salaries entirely compensate for you and me. (Sucks for people who work retail though, and schoolteachers, police etc.)
- kLeeIsDead 10y ago
  I've lived in San Jose from birth to 19 years old (worked one year at a startup) and I can see where you're coming from, but you must be blind if you have no idea what I'm talking about. The friendships I cultivated while growing up there are sacred, but those friendships would have been impossible if I didn't meet them while growing up. If I moved to SJ from somewhere else at 19+ I know I would be miserable, because like it or not most people are exactly like I described in my original comment. The type of people we grew up with and the type of people who migrate here are VASTLY DIFFERENT. Thankfully you and me could avoid them, since we were "fortunate" enough to grow up in the south bay. I'm thankful for my unique experience, but it's just that: a unique experience. As far as SF goes, I was talking about 5-6 years ago. I've heard its way worse these days. And it's going to keep getting worse, because the south bay is a cancer. It wasn't until I moved away when I realized that.
  - kobeya 10y ago
    I don't know what to say. Get out more, I guess? Change your group of friends? There's a million people that live here and I'm always meeting new people and striking up conversations. Some stick, some don't. I actually don't hang out with anyone from my childhood anymore, as I've made so many new friends over the years. I'm glad things worked out for you in any case.
eganist 10y ago
> The insane commutes, the work culture, the high rent / COL, the culture of trying to look as rich/smart/successful as possible, the sue happy people, the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work, etc really wore down on me. Oh god, you really quantified the cruft that made me hate the place. The bay is sublime in its beauty but could only be perfect for me if the population was subbed out for Austin's or DC's (which are in many ways opposite, but they're also far more distant from SFBay than they are from each other).
therealpeal 10y ago
> the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work > I lived in the south bay though Well, yeah
- kLeeIsDead 10y ago
  Over the years I've noticed the south bay culture spreading up to SF and Oakland, and down to Santa Cruz. They haven't been hit as bad as Palo Alto and San Jose, but I'm afraid that the culture will continue to spread as long as the software industry continues to be lucrative (and other industries become less so).

chrisper 10y ago

Yeah, same. I live in San Jose and feel 100% like you. I haven't even worked yet and only went to school here and I am already exhausted. This is why I chose not to live here after graduation.

kLeeIsDead 10y ago
The crazy part about it is it's just going to get worse and worse. I was born and raised in SJ... since the 80s this tech stuff has been slowly building on top of itself like some sort of tumor, and the city does absolutely nothing to stop the gentrification and overall shittyness of the money-money-money mindset from taking over. I'm 23 now, most of my friends and 100% of my parents friends (lived there since the 60s) have moved out because of the constant influx of migrant workaholics. It's given me a very cynical view on life. I really don't know where else to move, I feel like I need to leave the country as well, or at least leave California. Where are you going, if you don't mind me asking?
- chrisper 10y ago
  I am moving (back) to Europe (Germany). I have a European Passport, so I don't have to worry about a visa, like I would have to if I decided to stay here.
  - kLeeIsDead 10y ago
    Ah, interesting. I'm German too. Unfortunately all my ties to Germany have been severed when my Oma died.
    - kayoone 10y ago
      Come to Berlin, the startup scene is great by european standards, the city is cheap and super diverse. Great food, great nightlife but cold winters ;)
- iamcasen 10y ago
  I felt the same way after living in SF for 6 years. I moved up to Portland, though they probably find me to be an annoying migrant too :/
  - kLeeIsDead 10y ago
    FWIW, it's not the "migrant" part in itself that irritates me. It's the whole thing, "migrant workaholics". I hate the people who moved to my hometown for the sole reason to make money and go back to their home country, with no intention to integrate.
jartelt 10y ago
If you get exhausted by working a lot, it's probably best to not work at a small startup or a company that is growing super fast. There are larger (usually public) companies in the Bay Area where people can work 9-6 type jobs and be great at their jobs. It can be team dependent, but there are people who work totally normal hours at google, apple, linkedin, etc. There are a lot of other mature companies people work at as well. It's not as sexy to say you work for them, but they pay you a respectable salary and don't have to take over your life. That said, ANY job can take over your life if you let it, whether that job is in Portland, Austin, Chicago, or San Francisco (not that it is necessarily a bad thing to have your job be your life).

Bahamut 10y ago

Not everyone has the same experiences with the Bay Area - I live in the Valley and my commute is better than when I lived in DC (where even going < 2 miles to work took longer than it takes for me to go 7 miles by bus currently, even with direct routes in both cases), and I enjoy running/playing board games/hanging out with friends greatly. For me, it's mostly been great.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
eganist 10y ago
Agreed though I'm coming from the opposite perspective. Despite the traffic, I'm willing to put up with it in DC because the caliber of people is entirely different and far superior to any experience I've had in SFBay.

astrange 10y ago

I've carefully cultivated non-tech friends in SF/South/East Bay, to the point where I actually need to meet more tech people now since I have no idea what work life is like at other companies. It's been worthwhile and we do plenty of stuff, but you have to be prepared to drive very long distances to see anyone. And many people who don't get into tech move away, so practically everyone is younger than me (and male) and can't afford the hipster restaurant visiting hobbies. Oh, but the commute here is really not that bad compared to other American cities that aren't "world tier" (LA, Atlanta, DC) because those cities refuse to build mass transit.

eganist 10y ago
> DC I'm assuming you've never paid us a visit :( DC literally has the second largest mass transit system in the country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_transit_systems_by_ridership https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_rapid_tr...
- astrange 10y ago
  Sorry, meant the suburbs I guess. Some friends in the military and government definitely complain about how long it takes to drive a short distance. I've only ridden the Metro once, yeah.
  - eganist 10y ago
    I mean, I'm in the suburbs... Haha
- madengr 10y ago
  Assuming they can keep it from catching on fire or de-railing. I'm happy to be out of NOVA/MD/DC.
  - wyclif 10y ago
    I lived in Vienna, VA for a while, so I'm pretty familiar with all the failings of WMATA. And there are many. But...and it's a big "but", if you've lived in any major non-coastal city in the US you might think that DC's Metrorail is at least a public rail system, which is better than many cities have. It's sad that in the US, you have to take what you can get, and the reasons why the US doesn't have good public transportation have been discussed here ad nauseum, so I won't even flog that dead horse again.

kobeya 10y ago

I've lived in the South Bay my whole life and have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. There are subcultures of workaholic stress magnets, but they are easily avoided. I work 40 hour weeks, have non-tech hobbies and weekends are sacred. Your experience may be typical of the crowd you hang with, but not the valley as a whole. I'm also mystified at the assertion that SF would be better in this respect. The conventional view is that SF is more status seeking and elitist while the South Bay neighborhoods are more laid back, or at least more diverse in their subgroup compositions. The cost of living is insane, yes, although astronomical tech salaries entirely compensate for you and me. (Sucks for people who work retail though, and schoolteachers, police etc.)

kLeeIsDead 10y ago
I've lived in San Jose from birth to 19 years old (worked one year at a startup) and I can see where you're coming from, but you must be blind if you have no idea what I'm talking about. The friendships I cultivated while growing up there are sacred, but those friendships would have been impossible if I didn't meet them while growing up. If I moved to SJ from somewhere else at 19+ I know I would be miserable, because like it or not most people are exactly like I described in my original comment. The type of people we grew up with and the type of people who migrate here are VASTLY DIFFERENT. Thankfully you and me could avoid them, since we were "fortunate" enough to grow up in the south bay. I'm thankful for my unique experience, but it's just that: a unique experience. As far as SF goes, I was talking about 5-6 years ago. I've heard its way worse these days. And it's going to keep getting worse, because the south bay is a cancer. It wasn't until I moved away when I realized that.
- kobeya 10y ago
  I don't know what to say. Get out more, I guess? Change your group of friends? There's a million people that live here and I'm always meeting new people and striking up conversations. Some stick, some don't. I actually don't hang out with anyone from my childhood anymore, as I've made so many new friends over the years. I'm glad things worked out for you in any case.

eganist 10y ago

> The insane commutes, the work culture, the high rent / COL, the culture of trying to look as rich/smart/successful as possible, the sue happy people, the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work, etc really wore down on me. Oh god, you really quantified the cruft that made me hate the place. The bay is sublime in its beauty but could only be perfect for me if the population was subbed out for Austin's or DC's (which are in many ways opposite, but they're also far more distant from SFBay than they are from each other).

therealpeal 10y ago

> the fact that there's absolutely nothing else to do other than work > I lived in the south bay though Well, yeah

kLeeIsDead 10y ago
Over the years I've noticed the south bay culture spreading up to SF and Oakland, and down to Santa Cruz. They haven't been hit as bad as Palo Alto and San Jose, but I'm afraid that the culture will continue to spread as long as the software industry continues to be lucrative (and other industries become less so).